Need help/recommendations to lower FE390

The max you can lower is 2" and the best way is with spacers in the suspension. Get it professionally lowered you wont regret it.

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Quickest way is to shave your seat. You can get 2 or more inches out of the seat. Very easy and does not much with your suspension.

Now things to consider.
Putting spacers in the rear shock limits the travel. So if your a high flying rider then this is not for you as you will bottom out. And the same goes for the front with shorter springs. If you ride easy and are not a high flying rider than yes it can work, but will cost you allot. Got suspension techs are hard to find and some guys who think they are can do more harm than good.
If your bike has PDS than you are in luck with a Synergy bushing in what drops the shock without changing the shock design. If you have linkage than your out of luck as lowering linkage rods are bad, they change the geometrics of the bike.

FWIW
I am all for not playing with a shock that professional engineer has designed for the machine you are riding. I am all for using any technique that you can without changing a design. Spacers and valve reworking is very, yes very expensive. To do the front and rear shocks will probably cost you more than what you paid for the bike If done by a professional.
You will need a new spring, spacers, valve work and labour to do it, front will require springs and valve work as well.

Oh and then someone to set it all up for you

Falcolion said:

JonC,



What do you mean by spacers in the suspension? Do mean to send out shock and the forks out to professional suspension shops? What about your countryman Tera-X solution? That has spacers.



Also doing both options is 2 inches

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I had a suspension specialist rebuild the front and back with progressive springs set up for my weight. The bike has dropped around 2" and is fantastic. Does not bottom out due to the new springs. Cost me $1k but well worth it.

Like JonC said I had my FE450 AND FE250 suspension lowered 1.5" via spacers, fork and shock springs for my lighter weight, and revalving done for my riding style all for less than $1k. The 450 was done by Dale EO and the 250 was done by Barry at KTM World in GA. I love it.

Getting the suspension set up for me is part of getting a new bike. No I don't bottom out, no I haven't compromised the shocks or forks the spacers are easily removed to go back to stock. And no I don't have to shave away metal to make the X bushing work. I tried all that on my 2008 FE 450 and it was crap IMHO. Shaving the seat is doable but looks however a Seat concepts low version works well.

The reason why it was so expensive is that the Husabergs are set up for 165 to about 180+ lbs and well...LadyBerg does not weigh that much! So I have to get fork springs, shock spring, fluids, and then the labor to remove, install etc. adds up. Plus, I have them go through the shim stack to change for my riding style etc. I'm 5'8" BTW

I've really enjoyed having the suspension set up for me so it's personal. But I really ride my bikes and keep them for a while, its' a commitement. This year I'll probably get 100 hours between the 2 Husabergs and I don't race and also ride street. So one has to ask themselves do you want to just date your Husaberg(s) or get married hahaha. I really love riding my bikes and having a finely tuned suspension is part of the deal that makes it so sweet.

Oh I'm 5'8" forgot to add

the annoying thing, is that as you become more competent - IT becomes less important to lower them. BOSS is only about 5' 5" tall and he rides like a champion only putting his feet down for fuel stops.

ride, ride and ride again. mix MX with country rides and gradually, you just get so you don't need it lowering so bad.

Taffy

Taffy said:

the annoying thing, is that as you become more competent - IT becomes less important to lower them. BOSS is only about 5' 5" tall and he rides like a champion only putting his feet down for fuel stops.

ride, ride and ride again. mix MX with country rides and gradually, you just get so you don't need it lowering so bad.

Taffy

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Taffy I totally agree with you and definitely think bike height becomes less of an issue as my skills have increased on the MX track or other groomed areas. However, on rutted gnarly single track with tight trees it's really nice to be able to dab a foot down and climb on or off your bike when you stop or go slow.

On my first Husaberg I rode in a lot of deep sand and before suspension changed I would put my foot down to stop and promptly fall over because I couldn't get a firm grip on the ground. :banghead: Then I had a friend help me take off the forks and shocks and send to Race Tech when we reinstalled it after revalve and lowering I quit falling over. :spin:

Possibly some useful info?

Option 1. Ride the bike as it is.

It’s easy for an experienced rider to say "Just deal with it, you'll get used to it sooner or later". But a novice rarely has the confidence to tackle challenging terrain and when they do, they don’t have the riding ability to back it up. Quite often this results in the rider getting stuck in an awkward position without being able to get their feet onto the ground. This normally ends with the bike and rider hitting the deck. This failed attempt prevents their confidence from increasing or lowers it even further.
If a short rider is continually dropping their bike, they will exhaust themselves from picking their bike up over and over again. Simple things like U-turns can be near impossible as the bike needs to lean over too far to allow their foot to reach the ground, they then struggle to stop the momentum of a falling bike.
While this option is free, the continued repairs of crashed bikes and bodies soon adds up.


Option 2.

Back off the rear spring preload and slide forks up through the triple clamps.
While this is free and it does get the seat closer to the ground, it provides the worst handling bike. Having the rear spring backed off a long way upsets the whole bike geometry, makes the rear shock too soft and causes the bike to pitch back and forward (think see-saw) when braking and accelerating which unsettles the chassis and makes the steering very unpredictable. There are also limitations and safety issues to consider when raising your forks through the triple clamps - see option 5.


Option 3.

Cutting foam from the seat.
Depending on the bike, you can or cannot lower the seat height enough this way.

Option 4. Lowering the subframe.

Lowering the subframe will lower the seat height but can cause the seat to be sloping backwards. While this isn't a problem on a 125cc 2 stroke, it can be on a more powerful bike. The sloped back seat can cause a rider to continually slide back on the seat which can create bike control and armpump issues.
The other misconception here is that you still have full suspension travel. While the shock does have full travel, the available travel of the rear wheel is reduced by the lowered airbox/rear guard. There is also a safety issue with this reduced rear tyre to airbox/ rear guard clearance - see option 5.


Option 5. Fitting a lowering link.
Lowering links are not available for all bikes and often only come in one size (about 40mm). This might be too much for some, just right for others, or not enough for someone else. Fitting a lowering link will only lower the rear and if the front isn't addressed, you'll end up with an unbalanced and poor handling bike. So the lowering link manufacturer suggests raising the forks up through the triple clamps. One hurdle you face with this option is you can rarely raise the forks up through the triple clamps 40mm to keep the bike balanced or level. To allow more room to raise the forks, some have fitted bar raisers, but let’s face it, if you're short enough that you're lowering the bike, you don’t need bar raisers!

The biggest concern with lowering links is the safety aspect. Picture this. You've got 300mm of suspension travel at each end and you've got 310mm of clearance between the top of your tyre and the underside of your mudguard. So when you bottom your suspension out, you should still have about 10mm of clearance. Fitting a lowering link to the rear and raising the forks up through the triple clamp does not change your amount of suspension travel but only the clearance between the tyres and guards. So instead of 310mm clearance you've only got 270mm of clearance. Next time you bottom your suspension out, your tyres are trying to travel 30mm into your lower triple clamp and into your rear guard and airbox.

On some bikes, the shock bottom out bumper and the fork bottoming elastomers or cones may not be offering any bottoming resistance before the tyres hit the guards. This means the tyres won’t just gently kiss the guards but instead will be slamming into them. This interference is enough to cause the wheels to lock and in some cases stall the engine. The result can be a trip over the bars and a meeting between body and ground. For this reason, we never fit or recommend lowering links.


Option 6. Lowering the suspension.
This option is a custom modification, so the bike can be lowered any amount you choose. Lowering this way involves dismantling the suspension, machining travel limiting spacers to reduce suspension travel and reassembling with fresh oil and gas.



Compromises
Lowering a bike, of course has its compromises. It is a compromise between safety, comfort, confidence and ground clearance. Lowering the bike makes a huge improvement to confidence, especially on hill climbs and in slow technical terrain.

Falcolion said:

Ladyberg, thank you for your comments. Unfortunately I am only 5'6". So, 2 inches make hell of a difference.

Taffy, I agree about becoming more competent with experience but I doubt experience can help if I cannot touch down even with one foot. Even on sport bikes I am never flatfooted but if I get one foot solidly down or both on toes then I am in good shape.

FE350, thank you for a pretty comprehensive breakdown.

1. I doubt I will be able to leave it stock. This is my 2nd time to get a dirt bike. The 1st time I had KTM SX250 with kickstart. Because I am short I had problems starting the bike. I had to walk around and kick it with my left foot. Hence I decided to buy a machine with electric start. Even though I am new to dirt bikes I been riding for 26 years including a whole bunch track days.
When I rode KTM at least it felt a bit lower. In any case I don't think I would stay with stock height.

2. Definitely not an option. It would not be wise to upset suspension

3. Definitely an option and every bit counts. From what I found out FE390 can only have seat 15mm lower. I'll take it

4. 100% not an option. If engineers designed the bike some backyard mechanic will never make it better

5. That is the option I will be going with a stepped process. I will get the rear shock lowered 1.5-2 inches and pull up forks up to match. I think with a stock handlebar forks can be pulled up about an inch. Then I can add spacers for 20-30mm. That would level the bike and still have all the suspension travel and raising a bar about an inch will not effect much. That should be cost effective solution.

Then if I decide I can always send out forks for lowering. That way I will get a chance to sample 1st option and see how it feels.

Because I'm weight right what bikes are set up from the factories 165-170lbs, I would not need revolving.

What do you think?

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Be careful moving those front forks up in the tree as you can make for a poor handling machine, do you research wisely on that one and only move a bit at a time to ensure you don't wind up with a bad shake that can put you in a crash.

well just don't give up on the bike you will really love it once the suspension suits you. Meanwhile go out and ride ride ride!

Personally, I'm really much more carefree about working on the suspension

I've done a full front fork disassembly and revalve on my DRZ which has an open cartridge fork like most 'Bergs. (2011+ had closed-cartridge forks, i.e. pressurized. So a little more complex to work on but still doable.) With some forethought and first principles in mind, this is all very much doable as DIY. With different levels of effort - and learning. Swimming in the deep end is fun

The tips FE350 posted are widely on the net, and they’re good! But also a distinct point of view. They seem to be originally from here in SuspensionMatters: Suspension Matters | Tech Tips ... Some of the ideas in the tips feel a little like scaremongering to me. Although I appreciate that if people just jump in and muck with things with NO depth of understanding they can get into trouble.

Re. Option 1: Just Ride: This really works. Up to a point of course If you never feel safe, you can't let go and get into the flow which is where the learning and getting-used-to-things really happens. I remember when I got my DRZ it was set up so flighty - low in front, high in rear. Difficult to stay upright. Much later with the realization that you could change the handling only by the front/rear height balance - and gathered the courage to do so - I really started learning to ride. That effect was increased again when I fixed the front valving which was also inducing the bike to flopping over

Option 2: Lowering on preload and fork position in yoke: I really can't agree with it "providing the worst handling bike" at all. Mostly it just raises and lowers the bike Within certain bounds! First: Don't push the front of the bike so low on the forks that the wheel will touch the fender. This distance can be measured. You just look up the front wheel travel and measure from the center of the axle to the fender. There you can find how much you can push the yoke down on the forks. (Best to add like 10% to the front wheel diameter for safety as it does distort at speed.) Second: If the rear sits higher after preload adjustment, it can be said to "sit further in the extension stroke". In other words it has less extension travel and more compressive travel. You can start to lose grip if the bike has too little extension travel and can't travel into holes etc.. However the Husaberg 70-degree shock has A LOT of travel - 335mm! So even if you push the rear down “relatively far”, you still have a lot of travel in either direction. In the Race Tech Suspension Bible, a race sag of about ¼ to ⅓ of travel is said to be the usual range. I’ve gone further than that - about 115mm on my DRZ, which has 295mm of rear travel. (Although the DRZ is a linkage bike so the context is a liiiiittle bit different.) That’s about 37% of travel. And it was fine. Really.

What is your race sag now?

I’m 100% sure that you’ll have a fine handling bike at 33%-of-travel race sag. I’m quite confident that you could push the rear further down just fine, to about 35%? Maybe 37%?

One thing to verify!: I don’t actually think you can make the rear tire hit the subframe by changing preload. The wheel only sits in a different place within the stroke of the full rear travel. But we’d need to verify this to be 100% sure.

So! When you push the rear down, or raise the front, you make the steering heavier. (And vice versa.) This is because front wheel trail changes; At speed the front wheel acts as a lever to straighten the steering. Raked out forks make this lever effect stronger. Lowering the rear or raising the front will rake out your forks a bit and this stabilizes or makes steering heavier. It’s actually very interesting to try this effect, and I recommend it to anyone to put the bike on a stand, loosen up the forks and move them up a few mm, ride, down a few mm, ride. Just be careful to fix everything correctly together

So The 70-degrees have somewhat agile or flighty steering as set up in most cases. So it’s fine to rake out the forks a little. You’ll feel the effect immediately when you get on and ride. To get steering agility back, you just lower the front a little bit. In small steps! And within the bounds of how much you can lower the fork on the yoke while it still clamps securely on the forks, and the front tire doesn’t hit the fender That’s it

I should say that I’m not 100% sure about the spring and damper details when you push the rear down with preload. Do the 70-degree ‘Bergs have progressive springs? So you relax the preload to put less energy in the springs and increase the sag = lower the bike. This means a progressive spring will be a little softer on average. I also think that as the bike sits lower, the damper is on average under more pressure? So you’d get a little different action. But I’d try at 33% rear sag. And then inch it a bit further down to say 35%. It’ll be fine. Really.


Option 3: Lower seat foam. So yeah, this works! There is a factory low seat, which I’m sure uses the stock seat pan. So you can either buy this seat, or take out some foam. If you DIY, I’d look into getting high-density foam. It takes less space for the same cushioning as thicker foam. The reason the seat isn’t lower than it already is is not because of some requirement of the amount of foam, but probably more to create a useful spacing between pegs and seat for most riders’ knees. (My knees actually like a TALL seat on my 570.) So you can absoutely gain a few mm at least in the seat! You could try shaving the stock foam down. I’d aim for keeping the seat level and not create a slope up or down if you can (it’s trickier to ride a bike where you keep falling away from the attack position. Then if it’s useful lowering but gets too hard to sit on because you’re sitting on the plastic, you can actually replace the foam with denser foam! It’ll bring the cushioning back.

4) Lowering the subframe is a no-go IMO, especially on the ‘Bergs with their plastic subframe

5) Lowering links are also in my opinion a no-go. Plus almost no Husabergs use linkage suspension. But anyone out there has a linkage bike, DON’T use a lowering link; You WILL have to do internal changes to the suspension anyway to make it work, and then it’s better to just use travel-limiting spacers. The reason lowering links are bad is they change the leverage ratio the wheel has on the suspension - effectively giving the rear wheel a longer arm, which changes suspension balance completely. It’ll feel like the rear spring and compression damping are softer by the lengthening ratio, and the rebound damping slows down by the same ratio. This is bad. So you’d need to change the spring and entire valving to make effective use of a lowering link. It’s not worth it. Spacers are actually easier to calculate and install, all in all.

(Actually sales of lowering links should be maybe be banned in my opinion! People don’t know what they’re getting into!)

Option 6, lowering the suspension is really not that difficult to do. You just get some plastic or aluminium rod or pipe machined to the length and internal / external diameter. Open the dampers up and add the spacers. You’re done. This really is enough. It’s quite simple machine work too.

Ideally though, you want to respring and revalve. A rule of thumb is that you make the springs stiffer by the same ratio you’re lowering the bike. You CAN cut or collapse the springs to do this! Cutting springs makes them stiffer! You need to be handy with the blowtorch / gas cutter though. Then you can adjust the compression damping, although it should be enough to just turn out the compression clickers a little bit (especially on the ‘Bergs which are a little soft on the damping and springs to begin with). Rebound damping may be changed to stiffen it up in the same ratio as you’re stiffening the springs. That’s the theoretical rule of thumb.

On revalving: Revalving is easy! Really, it is! It is very hard to predict the changes the valve stack and oil will have on the bike … unless you have simulation software for it. And today we have that! I have a Pro copy of Shim Restackor and will run any valve stack simulations free of charge for any Husaberg revalve. I made my own stacks for the DR-Z and they turned out very, very well.

Here’s an excellent thread where kevvyd over on ThumperTalk learns to lower with spacers: Proper suspension lowering/valving...DIY or Outsource? - DR-Z 400 - ThumperTalk … along with some excellent Socratic discussion

Here Erik Marquez over on ThumperTalk shows some pics: Lowering a DRZ, lots of ways, this is my preferred. - DR-Z 400 - ThumperTalk

Big thread on DRZ revalving - incredibly valuable discussion!: DRZ Fork Revalve - Shim Stack Discussion & Recommendations - DR-Z 400 - ThumperTalk

Really excellent info on suspension matters here: Shim ReStackor, Finally software to tune a shim stack


When you lower the bike, if it’s done right you keep the steering geometry intact and everything balanced. Then you lose ground clearance, and some suspension travel. However, the 70-degree ‘Bergs have quite a lot of both clearance and travel. So we have something to give there. One subtle thing we get in return is a lower center of gravity; Shorter suspension travel also has the subtle effect of more predictable steering as front wheel trail is more stable in action, as is f/r weight transfer.


So! Giant reply! Wall of text! In short I’d try this:

Try at least 33% rear race sag, and millimeter by millimeter push the front down on the forks to suit. While doing this find the balance between fast steering, heavy steering, and millimeters lowered. This is definitely DIY material.

Poke the seat a bit to get a feel for how much you can take out. Take the seat covering material off by pulling the staples. Cut some foam out. Staple back on. See what you think If you like you can improve this again with higher-density foam. Can be DIY’d; Can be taken to an auto upholsterer. Or you can buy a premade lower seat.

Next I’d have a look at internal spacers. It’s hard to say what level of technical depth is enjoyable to people, but it’s good to at least understand the work involved in adding spacers. And it’s really not that much; For $1000 I’d expect very friendly service and superb results But it’s of course not only the time of work involved; It’s also the expertise of knowing what to do and how to make a good solution for a certain customer and guaranteeing things. But don’t underestimate your capacity of knowing your own situation and fixing your own problems. There you are always at a certain advantage, even to an expert in the technical domain.

Also: I'm sure the X-Bushing is good too! Can be made to work well at least!

"And it’s really not that much; For $1000 I’d expect very friendly service and superb results"

I agree with everything said, but the $1000 thing in my opinion is a little low. A high end set of front works WP forks will cost you well over $2500 and over a $1000 for the trees. This does not include installation and or set up. So a thousand IMHO is not bad. Superb service is hard to find as most dealerships and repair facilities just swap out parts and guess as its all about the dollar and not the results. Get the bike in and out and on to the next.

Now If we look at the cost of the machines that racers such as Chad Reid and James Stewart Etc. The suspension cost is more than what we pay for a bike off the showroom floor. I would guess 20k on one bike with a total of a little under 100k per bike they race. This is spent to have the machine work, keep working, be safe no failures as failures can cost life and wins.

A good custom shop will charge $ as it takes time to do this and most shops are well over $100 hour. Book time to re and re without even touching the shocks/forks is $500 and this is by someone who is a pro, not just throws parts in as most dealerships do, but by someone who sets the bike up for you.

Allot of people think their bikes are set up for them because the local shop tells them this, And this continues to go on as we will always pay if someone tells us this is what has to be done and what works, What do we base this on, a buddy down the street uses x to set his system up. But when you actually have someone set up your system correctly and you have a reference to go by you will feel the difference. To set you up on your bike can take days to do correctly. This is not something you can send out for and pick up, You have to be with your gear on your bike and ride it then tech re adjusts and so on. There is allot to setting up and most riders just ride and have no idea what they feel or need to feel, but for a pro racer who has this on his payroll will tell you it is a huge difference.

Yes diss-assembling the forks and shocks is not that hard. But to actually know how to re valve and how to figure out what flows are correct takes years of practice and hands on experience, this is not something you can do by reading a forum and do first hand by guesswork. You will also need tons of different stacks to do this and to try different combinations while testing and most backyard and or local shops don't have the knowledge or this ability. Good suspension tech have proven track records with combination they have proven to work time and time again, as well try new techniques when technology changes and new systems come out.

I have only know two techs in my 42 years of riding that could make a difference in the feel of a bike and that could actually set up a rider to the bike correctly.

Yes for the most sakes we all can put in spacers to lower and drill to re valve and it works for now as most don't know the difference, but the big question is... Is it done correctly and safely to what wont get you in trouble at high speeds? Is this something you want to risk at 100mph and going down? I for one will not risk my life on a question unless it has been proven by someone who is a engineer and designs to safety standards. I have been working on bikes and automotive as well instructed for 30 years and I will only use what has been proven and certified by safety engineering standards. I have read allot on drilling this and drilling that. But a shock dumping at high speeds and or altitudes can mean your life.

I promote the bushing as it really changes nothing, seat cutting as you should not be on your seat riding in this models sport anyways. These are both safe and don't change metrics of the ride and or handling. Sag is probably the most important as well setting controls and bars and most riders don't have any of this set even close, just watch a few you tube videos lmao.

Sorry for the ramble on lol, just some thoughts for anyone who goes out and spends tons of money at the local dealer thinking they are set up on their bike lol.
The placebo effect does wonders. I have had pains in the *** that say things have changed after work has been done and the bike doesn't feel as it did prior, I have returned them to the shop told them I made an adjustment as I know nothing had changed and to get them out of my hair, only with them to come back and say "Wow I really needed that setting changed as its like a whole new bike, I gonna tell all my friends on how well you adjusted" nothing touched lol I bet a ton of techs could tell you the same story.........

Ride and enjoy the machine and most of all have fun is the best advise anyone could give. Keeping it simple keeps you going.

Comparing the price of a revalve + spacers to the cost of entire new suspension units is a liiiiittle bit apples to oranges I'd price it based on 1.: materials used, 2.: time spent, and 3.: compensation for expertise. Parts cost a few bucks; It takes an expert way less than a full day to revalve and lower front and rear. Then you add the cost of expertise and friendly service So the $1000 may be a good deal depending on what you get, but I just want to say that it's FOR SURE possible to do it for much less! Good-quality lowered suspension doesn't have to cost $1000!

(I really really hope I don't come across as pooh-pooing LadyBerg's choice of suspension service!! I have the feeling I do; I apologise and ask for understanding that English is not my native language and I have some trouble with the nuances of diplomacy )

But most importantly:

REVALVING IS NOT DONE BY DRILLING! It is done by carefully replacing and reordering a few metal shims inside your dampers; That set of shims is determined by extensive simulation with advanced software and thorough discussion

And revalving IS NOT guesswork.

The elements of suspension damping are very simple. However: the hydraulic calculations in practice are very complex, so it's very hard to intuit what's going on inside the dampers. BUT!! There is computer simulation that does this for us!

This means that a DIY revalve *is* reasonable and within the realm of mortals. Same goes for lowering.

DIY revalving goes like this: Someone measures the suspension internals, and inputs them into Shim Restackor. Simulations are run. Then by looking at the graphs and discussing ideas, people come up with ideas for new valve stacks with better behavior. These are run in the simulator. Then when the community feels they have a stack worth trying - and the Shim Restackor simulator is really very good and deep! - someone puts it in their bike. The process involves ordering some shims online, opening up the dampers front or rear, unscrewing the damping valve and replacing and reordering shims. Assemble, test on a stationary bike, then go for a careful test ride.

Please try a stock valved DR-Z. Designed by engineers. Then please try a correctly done DIY revalved DR-Z. The latter is obviously MUCH SAFER. The market DOES NOT capture engineers' expertise in suspension, but rather optimizes towards the customers' lack of experience and judgement, and poor official evaluation of suspension safety in practice. I'm SURE the engineers would like to put better suspension in stock bikes. In practice the beancounters win.

I have to state it again: REVALVING IS NOT DRILLING ANYTHING. It's not sailing blind either!

Hi

I'm a cheapskate ! and also have the same problem, so cheapskate solution:

- Cut the foam, it will make a big difference (in the lower part of my seat I only have maybe 5mm of foam

- Take the race sag to max or more, you will live with that. To rebalance the bike, raise the fork tubes to the desired balance

- Use a shorter chain and pull the rear tire as much as you can to the front of the bike. You may need to adjust front and rear sprocket to obtain the correct distance.

- Get used to it !

If it's not enough then start spending serious money


ZAGA