jetting an 2004 FE 550 e

Taffy said:

hello dan

i've got you down as having
200MAJ
170MJ
ELQ needle on C4
38PJ
100PAJ
85SJ

i recommend that you first of all get the ratio of PAJ to PJ correct. it was i that came up with the formula still used by JD on the TT web site and it is as follows
"15 of air to each PJ"
so 35PJ = 45PAJ
38 = 60
40 = 75
42 = 90
45 = 100-105
48 = 115-125

as you have a 100PAJ you can use a 45 PJ

i run EKQ on my tuned 400 and it's literally only half a clip different to yours. i tried the 42/90 combo and the bike was better at 1/8-1/4 throttle than the 38/60 i was running.

next thing to try is a 'pilot air screw' which as a dealer you should definately invest in because once you hve the jetting right you may wish to withdraw the PAS (which you unscrew the exact amount of turns to equal a certain jet size) and fit a PAJ of the correct size and sell on the bike etc. keep the screw and re-use as they're twice/triple the cost of a jet.

this will however make the bike about 20% richer starting it and at tickover. this may cause re-start issues when warm. so to get over this you can order one of the two needles below;

OBEKR - this is a yamaha YZ original part and i believe it's an optional extra from the 2000 or 2001 450 model.

OCEMR this is a brass needle that sudco will have on the shelf.

if you didn't know dan, the middle suffix denotes simply the height at which the needle is 2.515mm wide and every second letter equals a clip position. that means that EKR and EMR are the same needle just one clip apart. and the EKQ and ELQ are just half a clip apart.

if you're going at it full tilt i would order the following from sudco

PAS
42PJ
45PJ
OCEMR needle
75 PAJ

you'll find this will all help. you'll also find that if you do 'snap-wheelie' tests and the PS reacts best at 2 turns out-the pilot system is slightly weak and if only 1 turn out that it is slightly rich. this is a great indicator of 'what you my need to do next'. 1.5 turns is the correct setting when all is well.

the accelerator pump should be tuned right down to .75mm of lift and less than 1 second of duration. the mark 2 carb which the huseys have fitted as OEM have a stop screw you can adjust but the MK1 carb that has the bell-crank on the side must have a model wheel collar fitted to reduce it's pump. it's known as the Taff mod.

that's about it really. i run an #80 choke jet to your #85 after trying 4 sizes. i'm at sea level BTW. also i run a 162MJ and not the factories 170.

regards

Taffy

Click to expand...

Hi Taffy,

I've been following this thread, and wanted to tell you what is in the 04 owners manual On page 60 it states the following:

FE/FS550e/6
EU/AUS/USA Green

Keihin FCR-MX41
model 4125B
MJ= 182

NJ= OBDVT (with OBDVR being the non green or closed course NJ, and this NJ is listed as the stock NJ on the FC550/4)

PJ= 38 (with 40 being the non green or closed course PJ, and is the stock PJ on the FC550/4)

MAJ= 200
PAJ= 100
Needle position 5th from top
START JET= 85

I usually ride at 3400' elevation and am currently running the closed course jetting listed above, as well as a Ty Davis PS. I can see by your PAJJ ratio, and advice to Dan that I should increase the size of the PJ to at least 42 or 45. Or, should I just decrease the size of the PAJ to 75?? This would explain why I cannot get the idle speed of the motor to drop down when I open the PS past 3 turns while attempting to find the correct idle mix as described in the manual.

I also see that you suggest an EMR needle. What clip position should we set it at??

Thanks,

dale

the 'closed course' jetting is basically what i've suggested lately as will work. i wish i had more time and that we had more than 8 hours of daylight a day so i could go check but i have to say that dale had these figures first and then so did scully through australia.

my tests are my own and i've done over 50. if husaberg hadn't put these figures up or dale i would have got there on my own just as i did with the WR jetting four years ago on TT.

now whether to go up on PJ or down on PAJ? go up on the PJ to 42. your main jet is well, well rich for your altitude. like at least 10 over! i would get me every main between in the 160's to try-get all four of the usual sizes (160, 162, 165, 168).

don't check for top speed but try it up a slight incline and try and guage the top speed. looking at a speedo.

MJ down 5 will need the needle up 1 clip but i'm not really sure about as much as 15-20 out! just remember that the MJ is leaning everything so if something gets worse whilst the top end gets better-richen it!

for 3,000 feet you'll be on my MJ i think by the end.

armed with this info i suggest you give up a day to testing because you know which way you'll need to go. it'll be fun.

no offence dale but the amount of riders that want dialed in jetting without so much as a test or two gets my goat!

as far as the needles go well neither D series is recommended here if you want performance although i have to say that the DVR is better than the DVT for tickover/idle. EKR or EKS for me!

now the codes well if you come down on the MJ the needle has to be lifted so i thibk the needle will need raising as many as 4 or 5 times!

luckily keihins middle letter tells you where you are so a DVR on c6 is equal to a DLR on c1.

l
m
n = + 1 clip
o
p = + 2 clips
q
r = + 3 clips
s
t = + 4 clips
u
v = + 5 clips

so if i lay DLR next to DVR i need the DLR's first clip groove to be side-by-side with clip 6 of the DVR.

so for them to be identical now you would simply add metal to the top of the DLR or continue the needle point on the DVR for another 6.6mm.

hope you got that.

yamaha do a chromed OB EKR or EKS and an EMR and an EMS. for me, at your altitude i would guess at the following

168MJ start
OBEKS on clip 4
42PJ to go with 100 PAJ
PS on 1.5 turns

i think you'll be about there!

regards

Taffy

PS off to italy for 3 days so talk monday.

Hi Taffy,

First of all thanks for the information. Especially the placement of the clip postion as it relates to different needles, it actually makes sense, unlike the needles/clip positions of the delorto. Although I was satisfied with the performance of my delorto shod 2001 501e, trying to figure out delorto's needle/needle jet selection was not fun.

And, no offence taken Taffy. I did try a series of jetting tests with my 01 501 using a simple EGA device from K&N. Unfortunately, this testing was a complete disaster as the read out box kept showing a rich condition even as I jetted extremely lean and could feel the bike starving for fuel on the top end. Turns out in the end when I took the read out box off the bars, well, it sounded like a mexican maraka (sp?). IE a whole bunch of parts had come loose inside and the thing wasn't working. So it was kind of a waste of $165 bucks, and having to weld a bung onto my header to fit the O-2 sensor. Then come to find out from Dale that the single wire EGA wasn't really much good in the first place. But I don't feel it was a waste of time as I did learn somethings about jetting a 4 stroke. But, in the end, I stayed with pretty much stock jetting and the bike ran and started flawlessly.

The main reason I am being so inquisitive here is I know nothing about the FCR carb except what I have read here on this site. And wanted to be able to make a edjucated purchase of jets. Your information has been extremely helpful in my understanding of the FCR carb and it's jetting system, and for that you have my gratitude, and will be more than happy to buy you several pints at the force ride in March

We have pretty big differences in density altitude out where I ride. In the winter it can be in the teens - degree's celsius, and in the summer up to 110 degree's farenhiet. Where we usually ride in the summer is in the High sierra's, where it is 8400' to start with, and throw in temps of 90 degrees farenhiet and you are up to about 12,500' density altitude.

And to answer Dan's question about the range on a stock tank....... I recently was out play riding with my friends and we went on a 66 mile ride. This with the non green jetting, DVR needle on 5th position, and 40 pilot jet. When I got back I had 2 liters of fuel left according to the graduations on the gas tank. That works out to about 9.4 miles to the liter and about 35.6 miles to the gallon. So in "theory", that would have given me a range of 84.8 miles on that day and that ride. The riding conditions vary greatly out where I ride, depending on the choices made. In other words if we went on a very technical ride there would be allot of 1-3 gear stuff. And if we were riding a more relaxed ride the majority would be in 4-5 and some cruising in 6th, which would result in better mileage depending on the pace. So, my best guess at race pace would be an honest 60-65 mile range.

Thanks again Taffy for the great info!!

Has anybody from the Husaberg forum tried the James Dean (JD) Jetting kit available on the Thumper Talk forum? The kit consists of two custom tailored triple tapered needles, four main jets and instructions for various altitudes and engine types. I use this jetting in my FCR equipped '04 KTM 525 EXC with excellent results after a few alterations from the provided instructions. I prefer the leaner of the two needles (red needle) for all round use at a variety of elevations. JD jetting is very popular with the KTM Talk and the Thumper Talk crowd.

chas

JD is a good man and a never met and never talked to dear friend. he has sent me 5 needles and gave me the original charts-all for free. but all the needles he sent to me had too narrower straight.

i could say a lot more that would stire a hornets nest or do mischeif to JD's business and i won't do that as i think he makes essentially a good product.

two things i will say though are that he sets his engines too rich and that far too many completely non-sensical americans have gone OTT with his jetting.

it's crazy what has been said. i'll never forget 'kev in new hampshire', he never ever got his bike running right!

he had CF airboxes, special plugs, jetting was everywhere, big bore pistons, let alone the stuff on the actual bike.

it would only come out now and again with an appeal for which shop to take it too or what do i do to it next. yet as an administrator he would rave JD's jetting (in those days JD gave away his jetting like me).

no one said anything. that's the one thing that has stuck in my throat to this day-the way people weren't pulled up for talking bollocks. it was niave.

kev is a great bloke and i mean no ill will of him either. but the above is a perfect example of people who rave over nothing and have to buy this and that instead of just riding the bloody things like they were invented for!

what do you call it-bench racing!

now that reminds me. my poodle (darlings) is shivering and i've just seen the most delightful little prissy chrissie pressie coat for the little joint of meat (one day).

now you know i'm jus jestin lads donchya!

sincerest regards :twisted: :twisted:

Taffy

Taffy,have a drink for me! :twisted:

For what it's worth,

I installed a 42 pilot per Taff's reccomndation, started the bike here at the house and let it warm up. I noticed that the bike seemed to idle more smoothly, and much to my welcome surprise, when the bike was properly warmed up I whacked the throttle wide open at idle and it hesitated just for a moment and then reved up. Before, this would have just killed the engine. I fiddled with the pilot screw a bit, and left it set at 2 & 3/4 turns out for now. Where I ride is quite a bit higher, so I'll do the final adjustment up there.

Another pleasant surprise is that the bike starts super easy now when it's warm, about half a kick is all that is needed. With the electric start, it starts almost instantly. This should be way cool when the desert racing resumes in January, as we have dead engine starts. I'm looking forward to practicing starts the next time I go to the dez.

I checked my valve adjustment (11 hrs since 1st adjustment at 3 hrs, and all valve lash's were just as I had set them at 3 hrs) before I started messing with the carb and found that when I pulled the plug it was what I would consider perfect. Light brown on the insulator up inside the plug, and three threads of heat visible on the plug.

Pulling the carb off was a bit of a trick......... I ended up taking the rear boot off, pulled the carb off of the manifold and slid it back then removed the manifold too. This gave me the room to lay the carb over so I could easily get to the bottom. If the bike were and FC it would probably be a snap to get to the main and pilot jet's. I really like how the needle jet is accessed, no more fighting with the return spring while trying to get the throttle cable attached to the slide.

Hope everyone is getting on with the Holidays well

On my 2005 fe550e it did not run clean from start up,popped and backfired for at least 3 minutes before it would start to run properly.I changed only the pilot jet to #45 from the stock #38 and it responded very much better,just as you describe...nsman

nsman,

Cool beans man!!

I guess they're putting that jetting in to keep the greenies happy. Seems like it would make the combustion gasses allot hotter, read more NOX.

How is that thermostat working out for you?? I imagine it gets rather chilly up there in NS.

Just wanted to put a plug in here for NO TOIL. If any of you have not tried it, you're really missing out. I have been using NO TOIL filters and oil for the last 3 years, and even converted several of my friends too. No, you don't have to run their filters, BUT, you do have to run theirs or a Twin Air, AND it has to be a new Twin Air. You see, when you use petroleum air filter products it reduces the reticulation (size of the holes in the foam air filter). Whereas the NO TOIL product doesn't do that. BUT THE BEST PART ABOUT IT IS THAT YOU CAN WASH YOUR FILTER IN THE KITCHEN SINK, NO KIDDING. The wife will never know either as there isn't a foul smell or anything. No more washing the filter in kerosene, and then washing it again in a bucket of soapy water. Just fill the sink with about 4" of warm water, add a 1/4 cup of the powdered soap and throw in the filter. Let is soak for about 1 minute, then just kneed as usual until clean, pop the drain and see all the dirt in the sink. Rinse in warm water and let it dry.


But does it stop dirt I hear you ask??? The simple answer is YES!! Like I said, I have been using these filters and oil/cleaners for the last three years out here in southern California where I ride and race. I have been in some terribly dusty conditions, so much so that my air filter looked like a big brownie when I finished the race, and found no dirt had gotten past the filter. And all my friends have had the same experience. And NO, the oil will not wash out with water alone. The oil is basically vegetable oil and is totally safe/biodegradable. It uses alchohol for a vehicle, and that evaportes off in about 15 minutes. I keep several filters around so I only have to clean every 3 rides or so. It's really great stuff. Allot of times they have a special deal where you get the filter for your bike, and a maintenance kit which consists of a bottle of oil, bottle of cleaner, and a tube of grease for like 25 or 30 bucks.

It must be pretty good, as HONDA is using it under license in their packaging for their bikes.

Was out riding for the Holiday weekend in the Desert east of Victorville. Conditions were epic as it had been raining for most of the week, but, only a 30 minute shower between Thursday and Sunday.

I played around some more with the pilot screw after installing a 42 pilot. I found that it worked best at around 2 & 1/4 turns out. I had it set at home at 2 & 3/4 turns out but that was too rich up where I ride at 3400'. Temps were in the high 40's with relatively high humidity. With it set at 2&3/4 out it did not start that well on the button, but when it was set at 2 & 1/4 it started right away.

However, it was harder to start when cold. Mind you, it was down in the high 20's at night. So I am thinking of going to a smaller start jet. What do you think Taffy?

hi dale

i've only ever really changeed the starter jet after reflection. a few weeks or rides etc. after all 50% of the time i'm starting my bike after i've carted it around on the trailer or i'm starting it some days with old fuel in and on others fresh.

so i wouldn't let one ride sway me.

then you've got the seasonal changes. right now the two hemispheres are only 10 days from their peaks and troughs weather wise.

mid march and mid sept are good times.

just to remind you all;

a lean starter jet means that it never quite catches or runs for .3 of a second. several goes to start and a 'blat' from the zorst.

rich = starts first time but 8-strokes in under say-30 seconds before dying. pig to restart. zorst sounds like it's been covered by a sock.

the bike should start and idle without getting perceptably 'revvier' or 8-stroke. this you should be able to leave for well over a minute all being well. don't expect it not to bog just after you've put the choke in, it will do. a well set up trail/enduro carb will only safely 'no-to-go' after 30+ seconds.

i run a 'Q' straight needle, 40/75 PJ/PAJ and 1.5 turns out on the PS. the starter jet i reduced from #85 to #80 and it's heaven in both seasons now.

i recommend 'reflection' though....

regards

Taffy

Taffy my boy,Be careful and only work in a well ventilated area, petrol fumes can be hazadardous to your health....nsman 8O

WHAAAAT DID HE SAY......? :lol: :lol:

Taffy.... Your making my head hurt :combustion:

It has been suggested to Taffy on more than one occasion to Cease and Disist from mixing his concoction of Avgas and pump fuel in his unventilated shed. Not only does this wreck havoc with his jetting but also seems to produce some interesting colors and patterns.

terminology to help all those from the usa who don't speaka da english

sept and march 21 = solstice known as roughly halfway between sunbathing and wearing your longjohns.

8-stroke = the dying rattle from your dodge viper just before it expires having polluted the atmosphere at 8 MPG.

reflection = is that just for wimps as well?

hemispheres = the combustion chamber of a '54 327c.i. chev -there are 8 of them, one above each piston.

'pig to start' = jolly hard.

'blat' = i am NOT attempting to explain that!

'zorst sounds like it's covered by a sock' = sock is something you give to your wife once a month and is made of soft fluffy white cotton. you place it in her mouth and thus we get the saying 'sock it to me baby'. note; can also be shoved in UHE members ears for the other 29 days.

we are all fluent, it's just not in the same language :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

regards

Taffy