Improving air flow into air box 09 570 Berg

aquajett said:

Hi codemonkey this is the website address http://www.vortexcdi.com
cheers aquajett

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$779.95 plus $50 if you want the handle bar switch. You cannot data log or adjust fuel cells seperately as the software is not available yet. Ignition timing is the pre-set ten maps. Fuel is the low, mid and high dials on the side. Plus, from the picture it looks bigger than the stock one and doesn't fit nicely. Might be a pre-production picture.

Vortex= $830 plus probably $300(my guess) for the software when it's done.

Factory Husaberg is $500-600 depending on how nice your dealer is to you. 912 minutes of data recording. As far as I can tell does not record or read Lambda(A/F ratio).

Who wants to be the gunea pig on these? :lol:

tahoeacr said:

aquajett said:

Hi codemonkey this is the website address http://www.vortexcdi.com
cheers aquajett

Click to expand...

$779.95 plus $50 if you want the handle bar switch. You cannot data log or adjust fuel cells seperately as the software is not available yet. Ignition timing is the pre-set ten maps. Fuel is the low, mid and high dials on the side. Plus, from the picture it looks bigger than the stock one and doesn't fit nicely. Might be a pre-production picture.

Vortex= $830 plus probably $300(my guess) for the software when it's done.

Factory Husaberg is $500-600 depending on how nice your dealer is to you. 912 minutes of data recording. As far as I can tell does not record or read Lambda(A/F ratio).

Who wants to be the gunea pig on these? :lol:

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Maybe someday in the future. I have a use for RPM info and maybe speed too, among other things - I think it would be kewl to embed such things into a video.

I am an unemployed Code Monkey (I write software) - what is the connection (of the Husaberg tool) to the stock ECU/EFI unit? Would it be possible to reverse engineer the data stream? Is the recording in something external to the ECU/EFI? I know nothing about the unit beyond the fact that it exists.

CodeMonkey said:

what is the connection (of the Husaberg tool) to the stock ECU/EFI unit? Would it be possible to reverse engineer the data stream? Is the recording in something external to the ECU/EFI? I know nothing about the unit beyond the fact that it exists.

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I met this fella in my local coffee shop his name is Wayne and goes by the name of Tuneboy. He has reverse engineered the connection to the Keihin EFI computer. He as done this for KTM bikes and Triumph bikes, but not Husabergs yet. I am working on him.
I don't normally talk to strange men in coffee shops but he talked to me first. He spotted me 570 in the carpark

Well, if there is any protocol/specification info out there, and I can hook into the ECU/EFI with a standard USB or Ethernet interface, then I can probably write software to talk to it.

But even though I have a EE degree, it has been almost 25 years since I used it and I barely remember Ohms law. So building an electrical interface is not something I am going to try. It would be quicker for me to buy the factory tool.

Davo said:

CodeMonkey said:

what is the connection (of the Husaberg tool) to the stock ECU/EFI unit? Would it be possible to reverse engineer the data stream? Is the recording in something external to the ECU/EFI? I know nothing about the unit beyond the fact that it exists.

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I met this fella in my local coffee shop his name is Wayne and goes by the name of Tuneboy. He has reverse engineered the connection to the Keihin EFI computer. He as done this for KTM bikes and Triumph bikes, but not Husabergs yet. I am working on him.
I don't normally talk to strange men in coffee shops but he talked to me first. He spotted me 570 in the carpark

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Well keep talking to him. I sent an e-mail a couple of months ago asking if the Husaberg was on the table. No reply. I use Tuneboy for my 990 with great success. While adding 20% rwhp(with a few mods) I also managed to raise the mpg from 35 to 50+ with a best of 56. Added a knock sensor to the bike and will see what the ignition timing will bring. If they are going to come out with something I will wait.

So, does the ECU/EFI unit talk OBDII??

I don't know the code. I will ask him next coffee. He obviously is not going to give too much away in case some out of work bloke in Seattle steals all his business
You can see the little 6 pin connector loose near the Fuses.

We talk a lot now, we both like a morning coffee and a bit of fuel injection. Last coffee he showed me his 3 cylinder Triumph that he changed the firing order on. He had a new camshaft ground up and fires 2 cylinders at once now, sounds like it has big balls at idle. The previous firing order only fired one cylinder at TDC while the other was top of the exhaust stroke. Then the opposite happened at the next revolution.

I'm talking tahoeacr. He has asked me to his dyno shop with my FE570 Not sure when yet, but will let you know.

Are you allowed to hijack a Post off the subject? Seems this "Air Box" Post has turned a bit EFIy :?

I will second that ozberg570 its been great i have only had the 2010 570 for about 3 weeks now and love it and this site has been very helpfull with all the information

Davo said:

You can see the little 6 pin connector loose near the Fuses.

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I suspected that was the connector

I'm talking tahoeacr. He has asked me to his dyno shop with my FE570 Not sure when yet, but will let you know.

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Yeah - I spent about an hour reading a thread with him and Cyborg (who is local to me and wants to sell his Aprilia RXV to get a Husaberg) about their trials with Tuneboy and their KTM 990s.

Apparently there is the Tuneboy and TuneECU software out there and all you really need is the cable for the latter as the software is free. I may look into it - I may ask Cyborg.

I wouldn't say this is off topic. I can't modify my airbox without giving it more fuel. Stock I am at 13.2 Air/Fuel ratio. I won't even do a muffler until I get more fuel.

Certainly, if you are going to add air or remove exhaust, you want to make sure you don't wind up with a lean charge and burn valves or the piston. And if you don't measure you don't know.

At this point I am not looking to make any mods any time soon - my primary use of my bike is off-road and for my style of riding the bike runs excellent and I don't need more power. But I like to know what the options are for other uses - street and especially snowbike use where there is less air at higher elevations and more need for power to drive a larger traction device that adds a lot of weight to the bike in an environment that slows the bike.

I would guess that others would like to know too.

Beyond that, it would just be nice to know. I would like to have a tool that could look at what is going on in the ECU/EFI, and I would like to know the A/F ratio. About the only complaint I have about the EFI on my bike is that it seems to 'hunt' a little at light loads and light throttle on pavement. Not bad, but enough to notice if you pay attention. I don't know if that is because of a problem with the setup, or if it is indicative of a problem with the EFI mapping, or a sensor or what. Not crucial, but enough to make me wonder.

So I bought a 'take off' seat from my dealer today for $50. Eventually I will take it over to our local seat builder (Rich's Upholstery) and have him make a custom seat for me with a wider section like a Renazco:

and I will have him work with me on a hole for the airbox.

My dealer agreed that this would make more HP but that I will have to retune the EFI so it won't run too lean.

We talked a bit about the dealer mapping tool and the customer logging tool. If I understand correctly the mapping tool does not provide the ability to edit the maps, only load them. So I guess I need to look for some way to do that. I suppose I could have one map that is the street/snow map for the seat with the airbox hole, another map that would be the current 'aggressive' map for when I ride on the street to/from the trails with a dirt seat with no airbox hole, and the standard 'traction' map.

I went riding today and I usually use the 'traction' map all the time, but I switched to the 'aggressive' map to see if I could live with it on the trail. I went to lift the wheel slightly over a fallen tree and wound up with a 4 foot wheelie instead of a one foot wheelie. So I switched to the 'standard' map and promptly wheelied up a hillclimb that I have done 50 times before, and I dropped the bike on its side.

So 'traction' it is I guess for the trails.

I did ride home on the 'aggressive' map, and I noticed throttle response was more immediate. Not huge amounts of more power, but the bike felt more alive and immediate in its response to any throttle. In short, it was more fun on the street that way and even felt a bit smoother.

I will ask Tuneboy next time I see him, if he has a plan release date for Tuneboy Husaberg EFI tuning kit.
That's 2 questions for him now


I'm with aquajett and ozberg570 too, UHE is a good place to learn. Thanks again Json, we would be in the dark without you.

Codemonkey,

You need to download the user setting tool manual, it's free from the mother site.

I believe that you are incorrect what you can do with the user setting tool, and you will see that once you have RTM. It should be noted, that all you can do with the user setting tool is adjust fuel and not timing. The user setting tool will also give you access to the 900 minute data logger that is available within the stock ECU unit.

As far as the bike being leaner from improving the air flow, I also believe that your assumptions there have forgotten the purpose of the MAP sensor or Manifold Absolute Pressure. If you improve the air flow into the throttle body, the MAP sensor, should by it's design think that you are riding in an area of lower elevation, or higher air pressure, and along with the air temperature sensor, determine the correct air density and adjust the fuel mix accordingly. Just remember to a 15 minute idle burn after you make your modifications, and the ECU will do the rest.

I have ridden my bike from conditions of cool and moist at sea level, up to 13,000 and warm temperatures, these are huge differences in air density, and the bike always runs the same- just incredible.

Now, if you were dramatically increasing the compression ratio, then I would think that a change to a higher octane fuel, and adding more fuel would be necessary, other wise, I don't think you will need to do a thing.

DaleEO said:

Codemonkey,

You need to download the user setting tool manual, it's free from the mother site.

<SNIP>

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Thanks. That is very helpful. I know the EFI will adjust, but will it adjust enough? The one post by the person who tried a dyno run without the seat indicated his A/F ratio went lean on him, so that indicated that the EFI did not adjust completely. Also, IIRC, there is a special map for the Akra?

But I would guess the best way would be to try it and measure it. The user setting tool has a lot of interesting info, but it doesn't show the A/F ratio. I wonder if a person could use the existing O2 sensor for that?

DaleEO,

I forgot to do the idle trick after I took the seat off. It should have compensated while doing the runs. I am just going by what I have learned about the KTM ECU's. They are the same but Husaberg has a much better handle on it. The KTM ones a few years ago would only "look" at the corrective inputs to adjust every 10 minutes. Thus, the 15 minute idle trick. I have watched my wide-band while doing the idle trick and seen it adjust. About a year and a half ago KTM updated that to every 5 minutes. Don't know if Husaberg follows the same logic. I suspect they don't as there fueling is tons better. Might be since I have the standard map it won't adjust that much. I still have to weld a bung on the pipe for my wide-band. After that I will see what the "comp" map will do.

CodeMonkey said:

DaleEO said:

Codemonkey,

You need to download the user setting tool manual, it's free from the mother site.

<SNIP>

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. I wonder if a person could use the existing O2 sensor for that?

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The existing 02 is a narrow band. It only tells the ECU "rich" or "lean"just a toggle switch. Bosch has some good info I just can't find it right now.
http://boschoxygensensor.com/default.asp?i=4_4
The Lambdas in our FE's are smaller than the normal use ones. Probably to help not restrict flow.

I seem to recall several people mentioning that the '09 bikes did not use the O2 sensor at all??

And I think the 2010 MY doesn't even have that sensor?

That the 2011 will use a different sensor which is not in the exhaust, but in the combustion chamber??

Thanks for the info. I very vaguely knew of some of the ideas about the 02 sensor and EFI, but I did not know the general theory, the differences between wide band/narrow band, open loop v. closed loop, etc.

I will eventually go ahead and get the seat done and then maybe find someone with a dyno and a/f gauge and have some dyno runs made with the two different seats and without a seat at all, on the different maps. If you don't measure you don't know.

What is the EFI Computer learning by letting it idle for 15 minutes? This subject has come up before and truly puzzles me. I find it hard to believe that it can take so long to learn anything. The Autronic EFI systems I am familiar with learn Atmospheric Pressure from the Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor before the starter motor cog even hits the ring gear.

The map in an EFI computer is a simple 2 dimensional table with an "X" Axis and a "Y" Axis. The "X" Axis is Engine RPM, the "Y" (Load) Axis is Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor (MAP) when the bike is at idle to somewhere not far off idle. Then it swaps from MAP sensor to Throttle Position Sensor (TPS). So the EFI computer cannot learn there is more air coming into the engine when improving air flow while it is using the TPS as load, which is most of the time.
It swaps from MAP to TPS because the inlet manifold is such a small volume it cannot get an accurate reading.
The resulting cross point in the EFI map table (which is based on load and RPM axis) is the time the Injector is held open. Simple

The map table will be corrected by a multiplication factor based on 4 things:
1. Engine Coolant Temperature
2. Air Temperature
3. Oxygen Sensor. This will only adjust light loads as it is not very accurate. As tahoeacr already stated it is Narrow band. You need Wideband and a purpose built Air Flow Ratio meter with all the bells and whistles (Temperature correction and other mumbo jumbo they have to give an accurate reading).
4. Atmospheric pressure. I don’t know yet how it learns this. It is either by the MAP sensor when the computer first gets power, or it has a second MAP “type” sensor internal in the EFI Computer.

On top of that the EFI Computer will hold the injector open for a set time when it sees a sudden opening movement of the throttle via the TPS. Emulates a carby accelerator pump

Think that is how it works I am going to hassle Tuneboy for a cable so I can learn this Keihin EFI stuff. Man I can't believe a computer could take 15 minutes to do anything unless Bill Gates wrote the code for Keihin?