Haven't had much experience with other bikes but just look at the physics of it. Husy air box is as high as it can be while the battery is way down low. KTM, for example, puts the freak'in battery on top the air box. Is that genius? Me thinks not. :roll: I, as yourself Taffy, have the aux. fuel cell mounted where most bikes have their airbox. That really puts the C of G down low.
I suppose you could always dangle lead fishing weights from the fork legs.
log
I suppose you could always dangle lead fishing weights from the fork legs.
log
Taffy,
I have heard that the KTM feels like it has a lower center of gravity than the Husaberg. I know Honda is really working hard on centralized mass on all their products and they have been really successful on their sport bikes.
Hakan
I have heard that the KTM feels like it has a lower center of gravity than the Husaberg. I know Honda is really working hard on centralized mass on all their products and they have been really successful on their sport bikes.
Hakan
Most of the Hbg design has the weight place low and in the middle (F/R) of the bike. But, in order to get high ground clearance (for riding ruts and deep mud), the engine must be placed higher. Yes, I would agree that the centroid (center of forces, ie mass) on the Hbg is probably higher, but I am willing to accept that sacrifice in order to rage thru ruts where the Japanese bikes are hung up and bending shifters and rear brake levers.
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
mmm? TM, i'm happy to have the extra ground clearance but i think it's more profound than that?
however, i don't have several models to try and weigh etc. it would be interesting to measure a bike at the handlebars!
work that one out!
regards
Taffy
however, i don't have several models to try and weigh etc. it would be interesting to measure a bike at the handlebars!
work that one out!
regards
Taffy
Taffy
I'd like to hear more on your ideas. The way I see it, the biggest mass is the engine, and that being the lower end. If it is placed higher your cg goes up. So unless there is a stupid amount of metal in the backbone between the stem and twinkie, I don't see where else a high cg could come from (the engine is soch and there is no airbox or high place battery). I too, would be curious to see where the center of mass is related to other 4T's and even 2T's.
I'd like to hear more on your ideas. The way I see it, the biggest mass is the engine, and that being the lower end. If it is placed higher your cg goes up. So unless there is a stupid amount of metal in the backbone between the stem and twinkie, I don't see where else a high cg could come from (the engine is soch and there is no airbox or high place battery). I too, would be curious to see where the center of mass is related to other 4T's and even 2T's.
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
Taffy said:
TM
well people think you can only weigh a vehicle in one plain and in two places - right? so we all think on a set of industrial scales that we can only roll the front wheel on and then the back wheel on?
actually, you can put a bike on two blocks OUTSIDE the weighing area and then lay the handlebars down onto the scales. you can even turn the bike in 3 triangular movements to weigh the balance of the weight at the two wheel spindles and then the bar end.
then do that with a class leading bike that feels light. i'm told that the gas-gas 450 feels like a toy! another thing to remember is that if you get the sag right and put heavier springs and stuff in; the bike sits higher, handles bumps better but of course everything has shot up.
weight
my husey was measured on saturday as being 58KG front and 60KG rear. i now have the horn and balancer back in plus about 1 kilo of fuel. 118KG or 259 pounds. that ain't light! so she's marked as going up 2 kilos but we'll say 1 because of the fuel. the other kilo will be the balancer and horn plus?
the balance is now 49.15% front to 50.85% rear. the chain was well forwards for both tests. however i anticipate running this chain with an extra link in it soon and with the wheel further back. this will probably bring the balance right up to 50/50!
regards
Taffy
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
TM
how about you weighing your bike on some proper scales sometime? please do a balance ratio as well?
or will that screw wiith the official secrets act! (LOL!!!)
how far back did the husaberg works boys run their rear wheels?
we need a good photo of lundgrun from the side.
regards
Taffy
how about you weighing your bike on some proper scales sometime? please do a balance ratio as well?
or will that screw wiith the official secrets act! (LOL!!!)
how far back did the husaberg works boys run their rear wheels?
we need a good photo of lundgrun from the side.
regards
Taffy
Good thread guys. Checked weight on my bike probably close to a year ago. 249 Lbs.( on bathroom type scale) combined weight do not remember individual weights front and rear. I have made changes to suspension to better balance bike . I will check again.
Cheers , Ryan
Cheers , Ryan
Mine feels more top heavy to me than the 125's I'm used to but feels far less so than a 450exc,drz,and way less than a WR450.I find it feels similar to a friends CRF450R.I must say though,I'm always surprised to read about people moving their batteries and other things higher on the bike.
That's because the engine is less heavy that others, Taffy. Japs have an engine that's about 10 lbs heavier. If you want, you can add a sand bag where you used to have a battery.
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
so i've just lowered my knee caps?
mmmm?
this one's from when i swallowed the technical books on road racing etc. and i'll try and recall it but it was all about a line from one wheel spindle to another and how much above that line the crankshaft axis sat.
i suggest that most engines are similar in weight BUT that a DOHC does have a higher 'C of G' than a sohc though.
if you ever feel like my handlbar test lads when you ride with your mates on yamondukis i'd like to know the result.
i've ridden the '06 katoom 450sx and it was like riding a toy. it was way lower and way lighter. it hurt me to say it, after all i felt i'd worked bloody hard to get where i was!
i can also tell you that i have genuinly struggled for 5 years when io come to a rut, a fast rut, i'm not really able to control the husey how i did with the katoom 520. now i have both machines in my garage still so if i still have them here in a week i may go and see my old mates at anglia recycling and do the three point test. not that i thought that the 2002 520 was better than mine but it's because you can flick the bike whist stood up AND THAT YOU CAN'T DO with the huseys.
as usual with me, i have had plans in mind for my next mad scientific test but alas i can't 'reasonably' afford an alloy tank but the tests have the following bullet points:
trials. waistline. flickability.
little tips you'll have noticed are:
request for alloy tank
request for fuel cell membrane
gone back to a LOW stadard seat this weekend
regards
Taffy
mmmm?
this one's from when i swallowed the technical books on road racing etc. and i'll try and recall it but it was all about a line from one wheel spindle to another and how much above that line the crankshaft axis sat.
i suggest that most engines are similar in weight BUT that a DOHC does have a higher 'C of G' than a sohc though.
if you ever feel like my handlbar test lads when you ride with your mates on yamondukis i'd like to know the result.
i've ridden the '06 katoom 450sx and it was like riding a toy. it was way lower and way lighter. it hurt me to say it, after all i felt i'd worked bloody hard to get where i was!
i can also tell you that i have genuinly struggled for 5 years when io come to a rut, a fast rut, i'm not really able to control the husey how i did with the katoom 520. now i have both machines in my garage still so if i still have them here in a week i may go and see my old mates at anglia recycling and do the three point test. not that i thought that the 2002 520 was better than mine but it's because you can flick the bike whist stood up AND THAT YOU CAN'T DO with the huseys.
as usual with me, i have had plans in mind for my next mad scientific test but alas i can't 'reasonably' afford an alloy tank but the tests have the following bullet points:
trials. waistline. flickability.
little tips you'll have noticed are:
request for alloy tank
request for fuel cell membrane
gone back to a LOW stadard seat this weekend
regards
Taffy
Taffy
Many riders that ride the rfs models complain that the front end is too light and tends to skate in the turns, but I agree they are lighter feeling and more flickable than a Husey. I have weighed a couple of bergs and noted the rear end to be about 10 lbs heavier than the front.
You commented that your Husey did not like to climb out of ruts, is that for the 22 and the 14mm offset clamps? I find that my '06 will tend to climb out of a rut rather and follow it, which can be problematic if you want to be lazy and just play "slot cars".
Many riders that ride the rfs models complain that the front end is too light and tends to skate in the turns, but I agree they are lighter feeling and more flickable than a Husey. I have weighed a couple of bergs and noted the rear end to be about 10 lbs heavier than the front.
You commented that your Husey did not like to climb out of ruts, is that for the 22 and the 14mm offset clamps? I find that my '06 will tend to climb out of a rut rather and follow it, which can be problematic if you want to be lazy and just play "slot cars".
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
what i meant was that i would turn up at any rut on the standard ktm and i could go through it and even if i was off balance i could still hold the bike in no problem! this is while sat down by the way. flickability. confidence. balanced.
it got in the end so i would turn up flat in 5th and just brake lightly and then open the throttle all the way through and it didn't matter i knew i'd have no trouble whereas the husey is like being on a high wire in the circus trapeze!
if it's not the steering head etc it'll be the riding position/C of G.
i don't know the answer or i wouldn't be asking the question. the bike feels TALL. that's why, even though the tall seat really works for me ENERGY wise (makes it easier to stand and sit) i've gone back to standard in an attempt to find a new way forwards.
as for the S12 - i can't see that being the problem as the ktm had one fitted as well. i swear by them. our mud is a little bit different to your arizona sunshine methinks berger!
anyway, i now have the later frame so i can twiddle the knobs there and see if that's part of the equation.
regards
Taffy
it got in the end so i would turn up flat in 5th and just brake lightly and then open the throttle all the way through and it didn't matter i knew i'd have no trouble whereas the husey is like being on a high wire in the circus trapeze!
if it's not the steering head etc it'll be the riding position/C of G.
i don't know the answer or i wouldn't be asking the question. the bike feels TALL. that's why, even though the tall seat really works for me ENERGY wise (makes it easier to stand and sit) i've gone back to standard in an attempt to find a new way forwards.
as for the S12 - i can't see that being the problem as the ktm had one fitted as well. i swear by them. our mud is a little bit different to your arizona sunshine methinks berger!
anyway, i now have the later frame so i can twiddle the knobs there and see if that's part of the equation.
regards
Taffy
gruntenberg has lowered his radiator by about 30mm on his 501 and has noticed a difference. For production engineering they're all sited in the same position to accomodate the long stroke 650, so your 400 Taffy may gain what 50mm?
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
spiney
having now had a look and got everything into the newer frame i can tell you how hard it was to get the radiatoer simply in!
i'm still using the old manual decomp lever that protrudes forwards from the cylinder head and of course slap bang into the fatest part of the radiator - the soldered joint.
didn't seem to bad yesterday! slow speed handling as at times slow and hard but the soil was sandy so that may account for it.
we'll see!
regards
Taffy
having now had a look and got everything into the newer frame i can tell you how hard it was to get the radiatoer simply in!
i'm still using the old manual decomp lever that protrudes forwards from the cylinder head and of course slap bang into the fatest part of the radiator - the soldered joint.
didn't seem to bad yesterday! slow speed handling as at times slow and hard but the soil was sandy so that may account for it.
we'll see!
regards
Taffy
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