head stem angle

please forgive my numptyness azza can you please decribe the push thing?

more raked out should mean that the trail is increased right, so hes got more grip and stability once in the corner but the bike might be harder turning in at the start.

I cut the upper shock mounts off the frame and rewelded them on 9mm higher that dropped the rear of the bike about 27mm, probably too much but I had a 150-90 tyre ...... now I can play with the length of my shock to comphensate. at a guess Id say dropping the rear 10-15mm would be the go. easier than that is to push the forks down 3mm below flush just to see if its the way to move things.

some guys have a spacer in their shocks to get the same result I think.

regards
Bushie

awilksch said:

Hi all,

does anyone know for sure if there was a change in steering head angle between '04 and '05 models?

I have my berg and my bro-in-law's bike side by side, and it appears that the forks are slightly more raked out on his. It was purchased as an '05, but a few things have caught my attention that make me think it is not '05, such as oil filler neck straight vertical, whereas my '05 is on a angle out from the side of the case / cyl, and not sure but water pump cover could have been changed to a later model cover, i believe '04 was straight forward not angled down. otherwise it looks like an '05.

are there any sure ways to tell what year it is?

reason I ask is that I am still looking for a way to improve the front end push issue, and his bike handles better than mine. currently have -6 fork compression clicks from neutral, -5rebound on forks and shock neutral hi and low compression and -2 rebound.

will try on yet another front tyre, this time Dunlop D793 AF (i think) courtesy of kyma, courtesy of Orangeberg at the forceride (thanks medogrocket, the MC5 is finally loosing its knobs).

CAny suggestions welcome, cheers!

Azza.

Click to expand...

The '04's had the new frame geometry too. Somewhere on this site is a picture comparison between the old/new frames, and the difference is quite apparent.

As far as the oil filler angle, this was a mid year change in '05, as KTM is prone to do. The early 2005 production bikes had the straight angle filler still.

Steering head angle of an 05 compared to a 01




Front axle measurement comparison between the 01 and 05 models. 05 Bike in photo,

Hi Azza,

We have our own guide embedded within the doc too;
http://www.husaberg.org/wiki/index.php/ ... etup_guide
http://www.husaberg.org/wiki/index.php/ ... etup_guide

IMHO, and not famialar with your terrain you've got too much compression damping, certainly for rocks you want it backed right off. Pull the forks up 10-12 mm and put a link in the chain to get the axle back as far as possible. This all loads and steepens the front more to get it to bite with no stability issues.

Steve

husabutt said:

Steering head angle of an 05 compared to a 01

Front axle measurement comparison between the 01 and 05 models. 05 Bike in photo,

Click to expand...

Thanks Husabutt. I looked around but couldn't find those pictures. Those are the ones I was referencing in my earlier post.

awilksch said:

Bushie, its like the first part of the turn wants to wander or skid a bit wide on the turn, then there is an oversteering sensation like it wants to wrench you around.

in sand the first part is less pronounced, just feels like ripping you around , you need to hold it from turning in too much.

sonner or later ill try and work my way through the teknik suspension tuning guide, but im hoping that relaxing the preload on the rear helps.

Azza.

Click to expand...

ahh ok its hard to visualise, I think I need a road trip to KI

so you can increase the trail and rake out the bike more like your BIL or reduce the trail and steepen the rake. try both extreemes not just little increments. if you like the stability of having it raked out more but can't turn in you can soften the forks a tad or try different handlebar positions. you don't have bar raisers do you?

it sounds like your having trouble getting the bike to dive down for a corner to turn in so either too much oil or too stiff something in the forks but because your steering head is steep, once its turned then it oversteers.

or perhaps its the opposite with both bikes there it shouldn't be too hard to get one more like the other. its a great oppoutunity to get your bike sorted because of being able to make an immediate comparison. I'm jelous ha 8O

sounds like fun
cheers
Bushie

DaleEO said:

awilksch said:

Hi all,

does anyone know for sure if there was a change in steering head angle between '04 and '05 models?

I have my berg and my bro-in-law's bike side by side, and it appears that the forks are slightly more raked out on his. It was purchased as an '05, but a few things have caught my attention that make me think it is not '05, such as oil filler neck straight vertical, whereas my '05 is on a angle out from the side of the case / cyl, and not sure but water pump cover could have been changed to a later model cover, i believe '04 was straight forward not angled down. otherwise it looks like an '05.

are there any sure ways to tell what year it is?

reason I ask is that I am still looking for a way to improve the front end push issue, and his bike handles better than mine. currently have -6 fork compression clicks from neutral, -5rebound on forks and shock neutral hi and low compression and -2 rebound.

will try on yet another front tyre, this time Dunlop D793 AF (i think) courtesy of kyma, courtesy of Orangeberg at the forceride (thanks medogrocket, the MC5 is finally loosing its knobs).

CAny suggestions welcome, cheers!

Azza.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Azza,

First things first here mate, all of your clickers should be referenced from the full in to how many clicks out. IE Fork compression set at 15 clicks out from full clock wise.

So, where are your clickers at using the above reference?

Secondly when you are riding the bike, and entering a turn, your crotch shold be a fist's distance from the gas cap, chin over the handle bars, elbow's up, and inside leg parallel with the fork leg but not touching the ground, outside leg=ball of foot on peg and that knee in tight to the rad shroud.

You should have between 30-35 mm's of static sag, and about 95-100mm's of rider sag. This is usually between 4-6mm of spring preload, mine is at 5mm. That's you with your gear on standing on the pegs. This has to be within this range or the bike is not going to handle right.

What is your weight, and what type of riding do you do?

Your 05 should have come with I believe .44kg front springs, yes no?

How many hours on suspension since last oil change? Any spring or valving changes made from stock?

Please provide that info and we'll go from there.

I'm about 190 lbs with gear, using a PDS 8 rear spring ( progressive) set at 33mm of static sag and this gives about 97mm's of rider sag. I have .44kg springs, and my suspension has been valved for a desert expert. I run Pirelli Heavy Duty MT 18 tires front and rear with the rear being a 120/100, bridgestone tubes, rear pressure set at 10psi, and the front at 15psi. This is on my 04 550 which is the first year of the steeper head angle.

My handle bars are set on position #3 which is the next to most full forward position, bars rolled up to the second line from center back or down on the stock Magura EX bars. I also have a sub mount for my damper which had rasied the bars 25mm's. This makes for a comfortable standing positon, and allows me to easily get forward on the bike.

Also be sure you have your fork pinch bolts tightened correctly, as over tightening the lower pinch bolts can affect suspension action.

And for your reference on my bike:

Rear:
2.0 out on High Speed compression
15 out on low speed compression
22 out on rebound

Front:
17 out on compression
18 out on rebound.

IMHO you should be within 4 clicks on any of the clickers from standard to be in range.

Hope this helps mate!

RE: Re: head stem angle

90 hrs.... try new fork oil before you get too fussy with the rest of it

regards
Bushie

Re: RE: Re: head stem angle

awilksch said:

Dele EO, thanks for the assistance.

the vitals are:
Fork Compression 15 out
Fork Rebound 25 out
Shock HSC 2 turns
Shock LSC 15 out
shock Rebound 22 out

suspension is stock, has no mods, never serviced though bike has 90hrs (6000 odd kms, but i think kms is wrong due to a knock from a tree that has the speedo playing up).

my riding weight is around 100kgs (200lb) (??) but heavier with camera gear bu about 3 kgs.

preload in the spring is loaded by an additional 1/2 turn - 3/4 turn, about 6mm preload.

static and rider sag were within cooee of 30 and 95, but i did these settings alone, if anything they are on the 35 - 100 side of the equation.

currently the shock tracks well, but is just on the loose side on pea gravel, i believe this is representative of either too hard compression, or packing with too much rebound dampning, that said the rear loosened up when i reduced the fork compression to 27 out and wasnt comfortable, so i increased compression to 25, it is now just noticable, like a little bit of feedback.

typically as I have adjusted the rebound on the forks harder since new, the rear becomes more in track and doesent fishtail, fork is set so praclically caps are level at top of clamps.

tyres are run at 8 - 10 psi and have retread rear metzeler and metzeler mc 5 front (worn).

Azza.

Click to expand...

Hi Azza,

Right on Mate, thanks getting those figures for me. I agree with bushmechanic, you need to get not only the fork oil changed, but the shock oil changed as well. As a rule, I do not go more than about 35 or 40 hours on an oil change on my suspension . If I have just been doing races, I will get the oil changed at about 30 hours. Your rear shock does an incredible amount of work, try carefully feeling the piggy back reservoir of your shock after a decent ride, very hot to the touch, while the forks remain relatively cool. And when one considers the volume of oil in the shock, and all that heat, well you get the picture.

I know the guys avatar but can't think of his alias here on the site, but, he is from down under, (steve ??) and he is mates with a guy named Frank (??) who is pretty well known down there and has held weekend rides/work shops on suspension for the PDS systems maybe give him a ring to get your oil changed.

Okay, I see you have a scott's damper as well, I over looked that initially. I set mine at 1 & 1/2 turns out for slow speed tight stuff, and 1 turn to 3/4 of a turn out for the fast stuff. I find that if I leave it set at 1 turn out in the tight stuff I end up missing corners.

To the clickers.........

On your Forks I suggest the following:

Compression 17 out.
Rebound 20-18 out (20 is standard).
Raise the fork tubes to middle line, from where you describe this should require you to raise the tubes about 5mm from where they are.
By increasing the rebound damping, and reducing the compression damping you will allow the front to get more bite in the turns.


On the Shock:
Sounds like it's right where it should be.

NOTE: I think the standard .42 springs are too soft for your weight, you are about the same as me in weight and I run .44's. On the rear I run a PDS 8 spring which is a progressive spring and will IMHO work well with the needle profile in your shock. On the older bikes, 01-02 the needle profile, long and thin, dictated a straight rate spring but the bikes came with a progressive. Husaberg changed to a short fat needle which then dictated a progressive, and they came with a straight rate spring. Go figure.

Hope this helps,

awilksch said:

Hi all,

does anyone know for sure if there was a change in steering head angle between '04 and '05 models?

I have my berg and my bro-in-law's bike side by side, and it appears that the forks are slightly more raked out on his. It was purchased as an '05, but a few things have caught my attention that make me think it is not '05, such as oil filler neck straight vertical, whereas my '05 is on a angle out from the side of the case / cyl, and not sure but water pump cover could have been changed to a later model cover, i believe '04 was straight forward not angled down. otherwise it looks like an '05.

are there any sure ways to tell what year it is?

reason I ask is that I am still looking for a way to improve the front end push issue, and his bike handles better than mine. currently have -6 fork compression clicks from neutral, -5rebound on forks and shock neutral hi and low compression and -2 rebound.

will try on yet another front tyre, this time Dunlop D793 AF (i think) courtesy of kyma, courtesy of Orangeberg at the forceride (thanks medogrocket, the MC5 is finally loosing its knobs).

CAny suggestions welcome, cheers!

Azza.

Click to expand...

Just check the engine number and 10th digit in the VIN. That will tell you what year it was built as.

RE: Re: head stem angle

ausberg

he's asking; "are we sure of the year of the change?"

folk need to remember that we updated that page every year fresh at the time in the christmas period when lads were drooling over the spec sheets for the (at the time) new models.

i believe simon found something wrong in there recently but like a dreamer i couldn't wake up and change the spec without making sure that HE was right this time....!

regards

Taffy

Re: RE: Re: head stem angle

awilksch said:

also, fork oil service 101 for dummies... cap off, compress forks, drain oil, re fill with new oil, set air gap with forks compressed(???), surn rebound adjuster full anticlockwise, extend fork leg, screw cap back on, turn rebound knob full clockwise, then set to desired position. (DOES THAT SOUND RIGHT??) I sometimes get lost in the description of how to do things in the Doc.

Cheers for the help so far.

Azza.

Click to expand...

To get all the old oil out, you really should remove the whole cartridge. This means the base valve at the bottom has to come out, but I drain my oil out the bottom anyway. Once the base valve is removed, and the caps are off and the springs removed, the whole cartridge will lift right out.

In your above paragraph, you missed that the fork springs have to come out. You will need a thin 22mm wrench to hold the nut where it screws onto the fork cap. When you reassemble, make sure the black spring guide is screwed all the way down, otherwise you will not have the full range of rebound click adjustment.

The main thing to watch on the refilling of oil is to make sure the cartridge is completely bled of air. Assemble the forks back to the point that everything except the springs and caps are in place. Collapse the forks and fill the leg all the way to the top of the outer chamber. DO NOT GET OIL INTO THE CARTRIDGE TUBE (where the rebound tube sits). If you do, your next post will be "why is oil leaking out my rebound knob on top of the caps?"

Once you have the fork leg filled with oil, move the cartridge up and down (grab the threaded top), until no air is left in the cartridge. You will have to keep refilling the fork leg, and it is important the oil stays at the top until the cartridge is bled. Once you have a good consistent feel moving the cartridge up and down ,it is bled.

From that point, set your desired oil level, and put in the springs and install the caps. Go ride and admire how much better you forks work with fresh oil.

Re: RE: Re: head stem angle

awilksch said:

Okay, i think the fork springs are 0.44, im not really in any position to get new springs for it.

parents are travelling to the mainland in a week or so, so I can get them to pick up some service consumables for me.

the Doc says oil weight between 2.5 and 7.5W, so stick with 5W? or would a slightly heavier oil benefit the action given the (probably 1 increment) too light springs?

also, fork oil service 101 for dummies... cap off, compress forks, drain oil, re fill with new oil, set air gap with forks compressed(???), surn rebound adjuster full anticlockwise, extend fork leg, screw cap back on, turn rebound knob full clockwise, then set to desired position. (DOES THAT SOUND RIGHT??) I sometimes get lost in the description of how to do things in the Doc.


Cheers for the help so far.

Azza.

Click to expand...

.44s have 5.1mm wire dia.
.42s have 5.0mm wire dia.
Worth checking with a vernier.

RE: Re: RE: Re: head stem angle

i've heard this before ausberg but when checked things aren't that clear....i found once when i tried measuring the spring that according to the scale of wire size i should have 20LB springs in.

regards

Taffy