Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
Re: fork rebuild
per
this is where i start to learn what everything does. i have got a mid valve change down to 2 hours for the pair and it'll get quicker.
after what i've been riding for 4-years, what with this bike trying to kill me! i shall take great pleasure in having the bike g-out!
joking aside, i've written down the other figures you suggested:
24 x 4, 22, 20, 18.
regards
Taffy
per
this is where i start to learn what everything does. i have got a mid valve change down to 2 hours for the pair and it'll get quicker.
after what i've been riding for 4-years, what with this bike trying to kill me! i shall take great pleasure in having the bike g-out!
joking aside, i've written down the other figures you suggested:
24 x 4, 22, 20, 18.
regards
Taffy
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
Re: fork rebuild
third sunday on the trot to swaffham and this week it was soft but dry-perfect. by the end of the day the bike hardly needed a jet wash....
i took the bike out with the new changes. the BV had the two 24's out and a 12. new stack was: 24, 24, 24, 14, 22, 20, 18, 16, 14, 11, 9 -.3, 18 -.2
the MV now had a a stack going from 4 x 24s to 24, 24, 22, 20, 18 and 13.
the rebound was essentially the same except that i took out 1 delta shim and put one other the other side of the crossover. 24d, 24d, 15, 24d, 20, 18, 16, 14, 10 -.2, 16 -.25
the bike started out plusher straight away with the headstock staying low as you know they do. i outed the comp 5 clicks to 17 out and then later went out a further 4 and then a further 4 to make 25 in total. all this time i still have 50mm of unused travel? how? WTF?
yet the forks are lovely, no spikes, sucking up everything. compared to the set up i've had over the 4 years it's bliss at this point. i can't make it better because i can't get used to it quick enough! my brain doesn't wanna compute!
AT THIS POINT THE REBOUND STACK CAME LOOSE I THINK! READ ON:...
at this point i decide to go out another 4 out of the 6 or so that are left. THE BIKE IS TRANSFORMED! it now hits bumps and lofts the front wheel hopping from rut to rut like a male deer in the rutting season, pausing in mid air and dropping onto the top of the next rut.
i then make an error and go the wrong way with the rebound (but don't notice it) and go out from 12 to 18 and the bike "needs more rebound" which it got and again the wrong way! howdidodat?
anyway, i decide to try my first BV change at the track and i was done in 15 minutes! i pulled a 16 from the BV. i turned the comp back to the core setting of 12 out and the bike was absolutely identical in it's behaviour to with it in and clicks at 27 out.
this was the first time in three weekends that i hadn't taken the comp out to the max and what a welcome change!
so i stayed with it at comp 12 out. i then wound in the rebound at last 2 x 6 to take it back to 12 and also realised my mistake at the same time!
the front end was a lot better. i'd like to have gone in the last 12 on the rebound to see. for the last hour i felt like i was riding the bike with the ride height on the front up an inch (25mm) just my perception? not sure!
by now i was shattered and unable to test properly. time to go methinks!...
depending on what feed back i get i would like to make the rebound stiffer, take off the 13 from the MV and actually put back the 16 in the BV. i can always pull this out again next time.
i still have 50mm of unused travel and i shouldn't try and go forward with shims etc until i have cured this i'm running 150mm air gap but with the 17cm drill mod so something is wrong....
regards
Taffy
third sunday on the trot to swaffham and this week it was soft but dry-perfect. by the end of the day the bike hardly needed a jet wash....
i took the bike out with the new changes. the BV had the two 24's out and a 12. new stack was: 24, 24, 24, 14, 22, 20, 18, 16, 14, 11, 9 -.3, 18 -.2
the MV now had a a stack going from 4 x 24s to 24, 24, 22, 20, 18 and 13.
the rebound was essentially the same except that i took out 1 delta shim and put one other the other side of the crossover. 24d, 24d, 15, 24d, 20, 18, 16, 14, 10 -.2, 16 -.25
the bike started out plusher straight away with the headstock staying low as you know they do. i outed the comp 5 clicks to 17 out and then later went out a further 4 and then a further 4 to make 25 in total. all this time i still have 50mm of unused travel? how? WTF?
yet the forks are lovely, no spikes, sucking up everything. compared to the set up i've had over the 4 years it's bliss at this point. i can't make it better because i can't get used to it quick enough! my brain doesn't wanna compute!
AT THIS POINT THE REBOUND STACK CAME LOOSE I THINK! READ ON:...
at this point i decide to go out another 4 out of the 6 or so that are left. THE BIKE IS TRANSFORMED! it now hits bumps and lofts the front wheel hopping from rut to rut like a male deer in the rutting season, pausing in mid air and dropping onto the top of the next rut.
i then make an error and go the wrong way with the rebound (but don't notice it) and go out from 12 to 18 and the bike "needs more rebound" which it got and again the wrong way! howdidodat?
anyway, i decide to try my first BV change at the track and i was done in 15 minutes! i pulled a 16 from the BV. i turned the comp back to the core setting of 12 out and the bike was absolutely identical in it's behaviour to with it in and clicks at 27 out.
this was the first time in three weekends that i hadn't taken the comp out to the max and what a welcome change!
so i stayed with it at comp 12 out. i then wound in the rebound at last 2 x 6 to take it back to 12 and also realised my mistake at the same time!
the front end was a lot better. i'd like to have gone in the last 12 on the rebound to see. for the last hour i felt like i was riding the bike with the ride height on the front up an inch (25mm) just my perception? not sure!
by now i was shattered and unable to test properly. time to go methinks!...
depending on what feed back i get i would like to make the rebound stiffer, take off the 13 from the MV and actually put back the 16 in the BV. i can always pull this out again next time.
i still have 50mm of unused travel and i shouldn't try and go forward with shims etc until i have cured this i'm running 150mm air gap but with the 17cm drill mod so something is wrong....
regards
Taffy
Joined Jun 2004
380 Posts | 0+
Sandpoint ID
Re: fork rebuild
Hi Taffy well this is case of armchair Quarterback
sound like you screwed up the low speed portion of rebound stack. Personally I prefer 18 to 19 clicks out on rebound that gives you more bleed through on rebound valve which helps comp. mid valve
Compression mid valve doesn't need 22 ,20 ,18,13, thats counter act
the mod you did to mid valve after you fix that you are going to be
low speed soft on bottom valve
so long
VIKING
Hi Taffy well this is case of armchair Quarterback
sound like you screwed up the low speed portion of rebound stack. Personally I prefer 18 to 19 clicks out on rebound that gives you more bleed through on rebound valve which helps comp. mid valve
Compression mid valve doesn't need 22 ,20 ,18,13, thats counter act
the mod you did to mid valve after you fix that you are going to be
low speed soft on bottom valve
so long
VIKING
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
Re: fork rebuild
cheers viking
yep it's sweet having done everything yourself but i have absolutely no problem whatsoever in learning the (fairly) hard way!
i can feel what is happening at present and can see my first mistake. i have plenty of people to guide me when i stray from the path! :wink: :wink:
understand, soft rebound softens MV comp as well. aha!
regards
Taffy
cheers viking
yep it's sweet having done everything yourself but i have absolutely no problem whatsoever in learning the (fairly) hard way!
i can feel what is happening at present and can see my first mistake. i have plenty of people to guide me when i stray from the path! :wink: :wink:
understand, soft rebound softens MV comp as well. aha!
regards
Taffy
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
Re: fork rebuild
dam!
the nut was loose on the bottom of the rebound stack. and the deltas had moved around! ok let's scrap all tests after i only adjusted a few clicks and it went nuts.
sorry, but i'm trying to be very kind to the nut and the tap's thread and not overtighteen. i also figured i'd be undoing it all within 30 mins of riding! lesson learnt!
will try your settings this week viking!
regards
Taffy
dam!
the nut was loose on the bottom of the rebound stack. and the deltas had moved around! ok let's scrap all tests after i only adjusted a few clicks and it went nuts.
sorry, but i'm trying to be very kind to the nut and the tap's thread and not overtighteen. i also figured i'd be undoing it all within 30 mins of riding! lesson learnt!
will try your settings this week viking!
regards
Taffy
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
Re: fork rebuild
viking
this is what i'll try this week.
BV: 24, 24, 14, 24 (14 and 24 swopped) (as suggesteed), 22, 19, 16, 13, 9 -.3 with no backing shim this time. (this means 11 out, 20 and 18 swop for a 19)
MV; 24, 24, 22, 20, 18 (1.5 float). 13 out.
rebound: 3 x 24d, 15, 20, 18, 16, 14, 10 -.2, 10 -.2, 16 -.25 (as was-1 less delta).
160mm air gap. bottoming cones have a second drill in order to help the bottoming cone.
regards
Taffy
viking
this is what i'll try this week.
BV: 24, 24, 14, 24 (14 and 24 swopped) (as suggesteed), 22, 19, 16, 13, 9 -.3 with no backing shim this time. (this means 11 out, 20 and 18 swop for a 19)
MV; 24, 24, 22, 20, 18 (1.5 float). 13 out.
rebound: 3 x 24d, 15, 20, 18, 16, 14, 10 -.2, 10 -.2, 16 -.25 (as was-1 less delta).
160mm air gap. bottoming cones have a second drill in order to help the bottoming cone.
regards
Taffy
Joined Jun 2004
380 Posts | 0+
Sandpoint ID
Re: fork rebuild
Taffy
the missing 24 delta in the rebound screw thing up a bit you are losing
some low speed rebound control which explains 13 out on rebound
and it may have altered mid speed rebound
160mm oil level seems very low and you are not bottoming ?
what wt of oil are you running ?
I am still unclear what you did with the bottoming cone e mail me with a
pic
BV stacks looks a little off just having one 24 after 14 seems that you would loose some mid speed dampening not having the thick end shim
might improve high speed dampening feel
when you are changing so many things at same time it is very hard
to know what did what
have fun 8O
VIKING
Taffy
the missing 24 delta in the rebound screw thing up a bit you are losing
some low speed rebound control which explains 13 out on rebound
and it may have altered mid speed rebound
160mm oil level seems very low and you are not bottoming ?
what wt of oil are you running ?
I am still unclear what you did with the bottoming cone e mail me with a
pic
BV stacks looks a little off just having one 24 after 14 seems that you would loose some mid speed dampening not having the thick end shim
might improve high speed dampening feel
when you are changing so many things at same time it is very hard
to know what did what
have fun 8O
VIKING
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
Re: fork rebuild
viking
changing many things at once-i agree is not good however i have changed my 'mind'.... i want to get into the middle of the suspension settings and then try to work my way out.
i can't for the life of me, workout WHY? i'm not bottoming out on the small track i use. all i have are huge straightaway whoops but i hit them very hard and i still don't bottom out.
if you look at my base valve chjanges: i'm hoping to still be in the middle and altering the compression to around 12 out. i want to work near this number. 12.
i must laugh and tell you that the only reason i'm running three deltas is because the last-the fourth-was buckled last weekend and so i kept one from each leg out!
i'm running 5wt and intend to go to 7.5 as my basic oil soon. the bottoming ccones are the ones that are only 36mm long and i've drilled the FIRST hole at the base at 2.5mm. and yesterday i put in another, 20mm higher at 2.5mm. that is THEE mod!
i hope to be right in the middle of it all this sunday!!! could go either way. i have also bought a PDS8 (8.1 - 9.95) brand new and hope to set this as well!
regards
taffy
viking
changing many things at once-i agree is not good however i have changed my 'mind'.... i want to get into the middle of the suspension settings and then try to work my way out.
i can't for the life of me, workout WHY? i'm not bottoming out on the small track i use. all i have are huge straightaway whoops but i hit them very hard and i still don't bottom out.
if you look at my base valve chjanges: i'm hoping to still be in the middle and altering the compression to around 12 out. i want to work near this number. 12.
i must laugh and tell you that the only reason i'm running three deltas is because the last-the fourth-was buckled last weekend and so i kept one from each leg out!
i'm running 5wt and intend to go to 7.5 as my basic oil soon. the bottoming ccones are the ones that are only 36mm long and i've drilled the FIRST hole at the base at 2.5mm. and yesterday i put in another, 20mm higher at 2.5mm. that is THEE mod!
i hope to be right in the middle of it all this sunday!!! could go either way. i have also bought a PDS8 (8.1 - 9.95) brand new and hope to set this as well!
regards
taffy
Joined Jun 2004
380 Posts | 0+
Sandpoint ID
Re: fork rebuild
Taffy
with use shims looses its tension so its better to be past mid point on your
adjustment
I wouldnt loose to much sleep over the fact that you are not bottoming
most likely you are just getting into the bottoming cone bottom line
the bottoming system is work just fine
7.5 wt is little heavy I know Yamaha uses 7.5 wt but they have smaller
cartridge rod and 2 hole piston
go somewhere where its hard pack, rocky and ugly thats where you will know if your suspension works good
so long
VIKING
Taffy
with use shims looses its tension so its better to be past mid point on your
adjustment
I wouldnt loose to much sleep over the fact that you are not bottoming
most likely you are just getting into the bottoming cone bottom line
the bottoming system is work just fine
7.5 wt is little heavy I know Yamaha uses 7.5 wt but they have smaller
cartridge rod and 2 hole piston
go somewhere where its hard pack, rocky and ugly thats where you will know if your suspension works good
so long
VIKING
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
Re: fork rebuild
i don't ride anywhere that's hardpack rock and ugly (sounds like the name of a pop group!). i ride woods, roots and hardpack. all i can do at the moment is get it working well in woodland etc and change it when we get out in the sandy whoops and hit those hardpack fields in june/july.
it's going to be a long year!
didn't go on sunday 12th because it was too wet. however it's the beginning of half term and i will go up on wednesday.
regards
Taffy
i don't ride anywhere that's hardpack rock and ugly (sounds like the name of a pop group!). i ride woods, roots and hardpack. all i can do at the moment is get it working well in woodland etc and change it when we get out in the sandy whoops and hit those hardpack fields in june/july.
it's going to be a long year!
didn't go on sunday 12th because it was too wet. however it's the beginning of half term and i will go up on wednesday.
regards
Taffy
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
Re: fork rebuild
back to swaffham again today. i arrived 2-hours after the gate opened and as planned the track was drying nicely for me when i got there.
the forks have lost that rubber ball feeling and the bike sucks up everything. all i would say was wrong is the same problem i've had since i touched them.
when i jump off the top of a bump the bike launches off and takes an eternity to come back down and land. i've decided that due to the angle of the bike it must be that there is less weight over the front and therefore the rebound has little or no resistance to the fork "flying open". i suppose you'd call it a LS problem.
the nose of the bike has been higher since the first day i played with the shims etc so i wound the rebound in 6 and then a further 6 until i have no adjustement left. this helped the ride height and for the first time the bike rode back at it's old level. so i need to get more rebound back.
with the lower front end i could feel the bumps again and softened the comp by 3 then 3 again. lovely!
i then changed the rear spring. the sag of 99mm was 116mm today with the mud etc so i pulled the PDS7 and fitted the PDS8. the 7 was on 254 and a preload of 6mm whilst the 8 has a preload of 1.5mm and is at 258-259mm. what a difference this made! instead of sinking into the bottom of each whoop it now rides the top of them.
there was a nice little jump on the course and as i landed both ends sank very little, sank together and the time saved in opening the throttle is palpable. the comp is completely out and the rebound is completely out.
the only thing is that the bike yaws much more now that i have all this pliable suspension.
for the rebound i have: 24d x 3, 15, 20, 18, 16, 14, [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
i figured on putting the missing delta back in. and i will also try the 7.5W oil sometime.
regards
Taffy
back to swaffham again today. i arrived 2-hours after the gate opened and as planned the track was drying nicely for me when i got there.
the forks have lost that rubber ball feeling and the bike sucks up everything. all i would say was wrong is the same problem i've had since i touched them.
when i jump off the top of a bump the bike launches off and takes an eternity to come back down and land. i've decided that due to the angle of the bike it must be that there is less weight over the front and therefore the rebound has little or no resistance to the fork "flying open". i suppose you'd call it a LS problem.
the nose of the bike has been higher since the first day i played with the shims etc so i wound the rebound in 6 and then a further 6 until i have no adjustement left. this helped the ride height and for the first time the bike rode back at it's old level. so i need to get more rebound back.
with the lower front end i could feel the bumps again and softened the comp by 3 then 3 again. lovely!
i then changed the rear spring. the sag of 99mm was 116mm today with the mud etc so i pulled the PDS7 and fitted the PDS8. the 7 was on 254 and a preload of 6mm whilst the 8 has a preload of 1.5mm and is at 258-259mm. what a difference this made! instead of sinking into the bottom of each whoop it now rides the top of them.
there was a nice little jump on the course and as i landed both ends sank very little, sank together and the time saved in opening the throttle is palpable. the comp is completely out and the rebound is completely out.
the only thing is that the bike yaws much more now that i have all this pliable suspension.
for the rebound i have: 24d x 3, 15, 20, 18, 16, 14, [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
i figured on putting the missing delta back in. and i will also try the 7.5W oil sometime.
regards
Taffy
Joined Jun 2004
380 Posts | 0+
Sandpoint ID
Re: fork rebuild
Taffy
from what you are describing
1 your fork is going too far too fast into it stroke in other words midspeed
and or oil level is too low not creating proper progression
2 you answered this rebound stack too light
3 when you installed a stiffer rear spring you did you compensate by turning in shock rebound personally I rather have a stiffer front fork and
not so stiff shock which makes me ride forward if it is the other way around I tend to ride the from the back of the bike which normally is not
the fast way around the track
4 I think that your bottoming cone is is taller than later cartridge bottoming cone which would hydralicly lock up sooner thus not using all
of travel
hopefully this makes cense
VIKING
Taffy
from what you are describing
1 your fork is going too far too fast into it stroke in other words midspeed
and or oil level is too low not creating proper progression
2 you answered this rebound stack too light
3 when you installed a stiffer rear spring you did you compensate by turning in shock rebound personally I rather have a stiffer front fork and
not so stiff shock which makes me ride forward if it is the other way around I tend to ride the from the back of the bike which normally is not
the fast way around the track
4 I think that your bottoming cone is is taller than later cartridge bottoming cone which would hydralicly lock up sooner thus not using all
of travel
hopefully this makes cense
VIKING
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
Re: fork rebuild
viking
you make a great deal of sense sir!
because the trackis small and tight: the surface is generally very soft and all i have are round edged bumps; i don't use all the travel.
i have the short 36mm bottoming cones with two 2.5mm holes drilled at the base of them - YET STILL I HAVE 50MM of travel that i can't use!!!!
the idea that my mid stroke is too soft now? what effect does this have per? why?
the rear shock has been on max out rebound and max out LSC since about the second week (of 4). i'm hopefully getting this addressed via an australian!!! the rear shock can't follow my hand off the seat. any shock rebound and the rear end stays in the air forever.
regards
Taffy
viking
you make a great deal of sense sir!
because the trackis small and tight: the surface is generally very soft and all i have are round edged bumps; i don't use all the travel.
i have the short 36mm bottoming cones with two 2.5mm holes drilled at the base of them - YET STILL I HAVE 50MM of travel that i can't use!!!!
the idea that my mid stroke is too soft now? what effect does this have per? why?
the rear shock has been on max out rebound and max out LSC since about the second week (of 4). i'm hopefully getting this addressed via an australian!!! the rear shock can't follow my hand off the seat. any shock rebound and the rear end stays in the air forever.
regards
Taffy
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
Re: fork rebuild
after todays ride at swaffham i have some choices to make. it was one of those days i know so well from my jetting woes: you haven't actually gone forward, you even have more questions than before you started the day, however, you do know more clearly the road to travel...
this week i had nothing much to try on the rear shock so it was all fork work. i had someone measure the race sag and although measurement 'A' (on the stand wheels free can go between 608-612 i will take it at 612-508 and therefore 104 sag.
my first two tests saw me turn the preload up 1/2 a turn and then again. the first saw a nice improvement in tight turning whilst the second didn't make such a difference. with 14mm offset clamps - headshake is never going to be a problem so i left it as was. again without checking YET i know that a full turn takes about 16mm off the sag. so around 88mm i would guess for now. tell you later.
on the forks i needed to see what a difference an extra delta in the rebound would make as well as the float being reduced to 1.15mm from about 1.45mm. these were my only changes this week.
Per (Viking) i'm sorry mate about not following your wonderful guidance. what can i say except it's one hell-of-a-mistake if i've gone down completely the wrong road!
well the float change made the bike stop diving and had no harmful effects on the suspension. can't say i felt it anywhere else but then that's a week off the bike for ya!
the rebound was GREATLY improved and with the exception of it flying out of the deepest bump it was great. so i may try a 12 to cure this?
the real testing centred around: 'do i need to go up or down or stay still on the fork springs?' .46s presently with 15mm of spacers of which 6mm is the preload which i felt could be better/plusher. i needed to know!
i tried it with zero preload. the bike couldn't cope with chop at all. so i figured that clicker changes were a waste. after all a simple 5mm preload change had made the bike very hard and tiring.
unfortunately, i don't have any spare preload spacers except for some 25mm alloy ones which i had made a long time ago (i merely want to distance myself from the berk who would think that 16mm of preload was ok!!). so the 25mm represented 16mm of preload.
the fork was harsher everywhere but flew across the chop and whoops!
so it was back to the original 15mm spacers of which 6mm is preload. i tightened the comp 5 clicks and that appeared to help a little, however for the next 5 comp added it was difficult to tell as the track was cutting up badly.
so what have i learned?
that i may need .48 springs which i haven't rushed out to buy yet because i believe the valving is too soft and that when it's right i may keep with the .46s. interesting though how the higher the fork the easier to ride chop and whoops?
i will have to add a shim back in the BV but i can't decide which yet? the 24s seem the obvious choice? i can then probably also try out 1 or .9mm of float which will stop any diving. this Per is advice obtained by those less knowledgeable than you on K-talk!
can i really need 48s? or even a 48/46 mix?
coupla things i noticed and don't have an answer for: the rear shock would plunge straight through it's stroke even with me stood up on one extra large hump?
i also have only 34mm of unused travel now in the forks. why did i use up an extra 16mm of travel today rather than last week or the previous? no idea!!! the bottoming cone is 35mm long BTW - coincidence?
i have bought some flow vales for a sub tank test in the future.
if anyone in the UK/europe wants a brand new PDS8 - let me know and likewise i'm looking for .48 springs.
regards
Taffy
after todays ride at swaffham i have some choices to make. it was one of those days i know so well from my jetting woes: you haven't actually gone forward, you even have more questions than before you started the day, however, you do know more clearly the road to travel...
this week i had nothing much to try on the rear shock so it was all fork work. i had someone measure the race sag and although measurement 'A' (on the stand wheels free can go between 608-612 i will take it at 612-508 and therefore 104 sag.
my first two tests saw me turn the preload up 1/2 a turn and then again. the first saw a nice improvement in tight turning whilst the second didn't make such a difference. with 14mm offset clamps - headshake is never going to be a problem so i left it as was. again without checking YET i know that a full turn takes about 16mm off the sag. so around 88mm i would guess for now. tell you later.
on the forks i needed to see what a difference an extra delta in the rebound would make as well as the float being reduced to 1.15mm from about 1.45mm. these were my only changes this week.
Per (Viking) i'm sorry mate about not following your wonderful guidance. what can i say except it's one hell-of-a-mistake if i've gone down completely the wrong road!
well the float change made the bike stop diving and had no harmful effects on the suspension. can't say i felt it anywhere else but then that's a week off the bike for ya!
the rebound was GREATLY improved and with the exception of it flying out of the deepest bump it was great. so i may try a 12 to cure this?
the real testing centred around: 'do i need to go up or down or stay still on the fork springs?' .46s presently with 15mm of spacers of which 6mm is the preload which i felt could be better/plusher. i needed to know!
i tried it with zero preload. the bike couldn't cope with chop at all. so i figured that clicker changes were a waste. after all a simple 5mm preload change had made the bike very hard and tiring.
unfortunately, i don't have any spare preload spacers except for some 25mm alloy ones which i had made a long time ago (i merely want to distance myself from the berk who would think that 16mm of preload was ok!!). so the 25mm represented 16mm of preload.
the fork was harsher everywhere but flew across the chop and whoops!
so it was back to the original 15mm spacers of which 6mm is preload. i tightened the comp 5 clicks and that appeared to help a little, however for the next 5 comp added it was difficult to tell as the track was cutting up badly.
so what have i learned?
that i may need .48 springs which i haven't rushed out to buy yet because i believe the valving is too soft and that when it's right i may keep with the .46s. interesting though how the higher the fork the easier to ride chop and whoops?
i will have to add a shim back in the BV but i can't decide which yet? the 24s seem the obvious choice? i can then probably also try out 1 or .9mm of float which will stop any diving. this Per is advice obtained by those less knowledgeable than you on K-talk!
can i really need 48s? or even a 48/46 mix?
coupla things i noticed and don't have an answer for: the rear shock would plunge straight through it's stroke even with me stood up on one extra large hump?
i also have only 34mm of unused travel now in the forks. why did i use up an extra 16mm of travel today rather than last week or the previous? no idea!!! the bottoming cone is 35mm long BTW - coincidence?
i have bought some flow vales for a sub tank test in the future.
if anyone in the UK/europe wants a brand new PDS8 - let me know and likewise i'm looking for .48 springs.
regards
Taffy
Joined Jun 2004
380 Posts | 0+
Sandpoint ID
Re: fork rebuild
Taffy
What is your weight ? 48 springs thats for a big boy there are a couple
things that doesn't add up
rebound 12 clicks w/04 shim stack and you are still not getting good
control when fork gets deep into travel it shouldn't
A/ BV stack is so weak that all the oil is going through BV and midv is
so restrictive that no or little oil is going to rebound side thus creating
a fast rebound
B/ there is something wrong with rebound stack, piston seal,cartridge shaft bushing
C/ your shock is too stiff in compression / too stiff spring, rebound is too
loose
D/ your oil level in the fork is too low not creating enough progression
E/ all of the above too some degree
Last weekend I tested completely new mid valve and in preliminary testing worked awesome no high speed healthy mid speed and does not wallow in a G out cant wait too test the valve in some nasty roots and rocks
so long
VIKING
Taffy
What is your weight ? 48 springs thats for a big boy there are a couple
things that doesn't add up
rebound 12 clicks w/04 shim stack and you are still not getting good
control when fork gets deep into travel it shouldn't
A/ BV stack is so weak that all the oil is going through BV and midv is
so restrictive that no or little oil is going to rebound side thus creating
a fast rebound
B/ there is something wrong with rebound stack, piston seal,cartridge shaft bushing
C/ your shock is too stiff in compression / too stiff spring, rebound is too
loose
D/ your oil level in the fork is too low not creating enough progression
E/ all of the above too some degree
Last weekend I tested completely new mid valve and in preliminary testing worked awesome no high speed healthy mid speed and does not wallow in a G out cant wait too test the valve in some nasty roots and rocks
so long
VIKING
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
Re: fork rebuild
you teach me suspension and i'll teach you to write grammatically correct english! how about that for a deal!!! :lol: :lol:
What is your weight ? 48 springs thats for a big boy there are a couple
things that doesn't add up
i weigh 205 pounds before gear. bike weighs 246 pounds.
rebound 12 clicks w/o shim stack and you are still not getting good
control when fork gets deep into travel it shouldn't
the rebound stack keeps coming loose at some point. i've found it loose in one leg again yesterday. i think it's tight but it can't be! the thread looks so frail!
A/ BV stack is so weak that all the oil is going through BV and midvalve is
so restrictive that no or little oil is going to rebound side thus creating
a fast rebound
ok, i agree that i need to add to the BV. i will. but at 23, 23, 20, 18, 13 i did not think my MV was stiff? you think this is stiff? fair enough. i intend the BV to become 24, 24, 14, 24, 22, 19, 16, 13, [email protected]
could try 23, 23, 20, 16, 13, [email protected] or 23, 23, 19, 15, 13, [email protected]???
B/ there is something wrong with rebound stack, piston seal,cartridge shaft bushing
don't know. i'm not hitting big jumps. have just 30mm unused. as i have said the delta shims are turning when the nut comes loose... sorry!
C/ your shock is too stiff in compression / too stiff spring, rebound is too loose
i have no compression, i have only 3 clicks of rebound from all the way out (softest). i don't think the spring is too stiff. i think that they just like to 'blow through' on the rear easily. this spring really helps across the top of whoops and stutter bumps.
D/ your oil level in the fork is too low not creating enough progression
i will try more again this weekend. i will start at 160 air gap again and then add to it.
all of the above? mmmm? could be!
i'm sorry about this loose nut AGAIN!!!
very unproffessional of me.
regards
Taffy
VIKING said:
you teach me suspension and i'll teach you to write grammatically correct english! how about that for a deal!!! :lol: :lol:
What is your weight ? 48 springs thats for a big boy there are a couple
things that doesn't add up
i weigh 205 pounds before gear. bike weighs 246 pounds.
rebound 12 clicks w/o shim stack and you are still not getting good
control when fork gets deep into travel it shouldn't
the rebound stack keeps coming loose at some point. i've found it loose in one leg again yesterday. i think it's tight but it can't be! the thread looks so frail!
A/ BV stack is so weak that all the oil is going through BV and midvalve is
so restrictive that no or little oil is going to rebound side thus creating
a fast rebound
ok, i agree that i need to add to the BV. i will. but at 23, 23, 20, 18, 13 i did not think my MV was stiff? you think this is stiff? fair enough. i intend the BV to become 24, 24, 14, 24, 22, 19, 16, 13, [email protected]
could try 23, 23, 20, 16, 13, [email protected] or 23, 23, 19, 15, 13, [email protected]???
B/ there is something wrong with rebound stack, piston seal,cartridge shaft bushing
don't know. i'm not hitting big jumps. have just 30mm unused. as i have said the delta shims are turning when the nut comes loose... sorry!
C/ your shock is too stiff in compression / too stiff spring, rebound is too loose
i have no compression, i have only 3 clicks of rebound from all the way out (softest). i don't think the spring is too stiff. i think that they just like to 'blow through' on the rear easily. this spring really helps across the top of whoops and stutter bumps.
D/ your oil level in the fork is too low not creating enough progression
i will try more again this weekend. i will start at 160 air gap again and then add to it.
all of the above? mmmm? could be!
i'm sorry about this loose nut AGAIN!!!
very unproffessional of me.
regards
Taffy
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
Re: fork rebuild
Per
the bike has NEVER given me full travel. i did however prise open the jaw of the right leg on sunday and ride up and down the paddock hitting the brake a few times. this is the reason i believe that i got back 15mm of travel.
i will try LSC on the rear again this weekend now that i have the stronger rear spring in. i think it doesn't need any though i'm afraid. as for rebound well that's the same.
regards
Taffy
Per
the bike has NEVER given me full travel. i did however prise open the jaw of the right leg on sunday and ride up and down the paddock hitting the brake a few times. this is the reason i believe that i got back 15mm of travel.
i will try LSC on the rear again this weekend now that i have the stronger rear spring in. i think it doesn't need any though i'm afraid. as for rebound well that's the same.
regards
Taffy
Joined Jun 2004
380 Posts | 0+
Sandpoint ID
Re: fork rebuild
Taffy
So you are going to teach me to be Grammatically correct thats tough one
you have some expressions that pure British and I don't get but I know
that each country have their own way of expressing them self
I like the diversity you get from different countrys it makes life colorful
Back to business I've sad this before you are doing too many at same
time trust me I have done the same mistake
I presume that the shock is stock almost all the way out on rebound
and a stiffer spring thats like a pogo stick you cant have any control on
rebound I would return to stock settings (at least rebound)and spring
then focus on the fork you are going reach your goal faster that way
just some friendly advice so long
VIKING
Taffy
So you are going to teach me to be Grammatically correct thats tough one
you have some expressions that pure British and I don't get but I know
that each country have their own way of expressing them self
I like the diversity you get from different countrys it makes life colorful
Back to business I've sad this before you are doing too many at same
time trust me I have done the same mistake
I presume that the shock is stock almost all the way out on rebound
and a stiffer spring thats like a pogo stick you cant have any control on
rebound I would return to stock settings (at least rebound)and spring
then focus on the fork you are going reach your goal faster that way
just some friendly advice so long
VIKING
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
Re: fork rebuild
Per
what you said above made perfect sense to me. stronger BV, softer MV, add to the rebound and raise the oil level.
perhaps i need to try as new circuit with some jumps etc. i'm riding woods in first and second gear at present and it's all soft.
i'm learning as quickly as i can sir! what you don't know is that those knobs are going in and out like a fiddlers elbow!
i don't have the bank of knowledge to know whether what i'm doing is close, miles away, right or wrong!
i have a 'hunch' and i follow it!
my rear shock feels fine. the extreme settings are a shame and a new shim stack in it would be great but right now i have no complaints.
when i put the PDS8 on i felt it was better straight away with no reservations.
but with the forks, i put the 1" spacers in as a crude device and although not as good because it is such a poor thing to do, one thing i can say, and that is it was better across the stutters and the whoops. it rides the tops of them.
i think you're saying that if all was well, the results i'm getting would not happen. i undertstand that.
i may be wrong but i wanted the forks to stop feeling like a rubber ball, to stop walloping the heels of my hands and at present i've acheived this. i will endeavor to make progress but would love to keep the light feel i have.
the BV will be strengthened, the MV softened and the rebound strengthened with more oil added after a coupla rides. i've also had some more preload spacers made...
regards
Taffy
Per
what you said above made perfect sense to me. stronger BV, softer MV, add to the rebound and raise the oil level.
perhaps i need to try as new circuit with some jumps etc. i'm riding woods in first and second gear at present and it's all soft.
i'm learning as quickly as i can sir! what you don't know is that those knobs are going in and out like a fiddlers elbow!
i don't have the bank of knowledge to know whether what i'm doing is close, miles away, right or wrong!
i have a 'hunch' and i follow it!
my rear shock feels fine. the extreme settings are a shame and a new shim stack in it would be great but right now i have no complaints.
when i put the PDS8 on i felt it was better straight away with no reservations.
but with the forks, i put the 1" spacers in as a crude device and although not as good because it is such a poor thing to do, one thing i can say, and that is it was better across the stutters and the whoops. it rides the tops of them.
i think you're saying that if all was well, the results i'm getting would not happen. i undertstand that.
i may be wrong but i wanted the forks to stop feeling like a rubber ball, to stop walloping the heels of my hands and at present i've acheived this. i will endeavor to make progress but would love to keep the light feel i have.
the BV will be strengthened, the MV softened and the rebound strengthened with more oil added after a coupla rides. i've also had some more preload spacers made...
regards
Taffy
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