Re: fork rebuild
Taffy and Brendan, great info!(if you understand it) Keep it coming. Fork springs should be set-up so that they bottom on the biggest of bumps or jumps that YOU hit. Usually an enduro rider will run a softer spring than a motocrosser will. The soft springs will allow the tires to hook-up better in bad traction conditions. On the topic of parts life span, wipers/seals are a tough one to call, I have had seals that lasted years and others that lasted a couple of rides, so your guess is as good as(or better) than mine. For the couple of years that I was doing suspension work(moto-x), I have witnessed shims in base valves cracking, but to put a life span on them would be tough as well. Check valve? the Showa and Kyb forks I worked on didn't have one, I would guess, that if kepped clean, they would be very durable. Oil should be changed once a year minimum but rarely does(out of sight,out of mind). Hydraulic fluids are hydroscopic(they attract moisture) and contaminate easily, which effects its performance, so use your best judgment there. Good luck
Taffy and Brendan, great info!(if you understand it) Keep it coming. Fork springs should be set-up so that they bottom on the biggest of bumps or jumps that YOU hit. Usually an enduro rider will run a softer spring than a motocrosser will. The soft springs will allow the tires to hook-up better in bad traction conditions. On the topic of parts life span, wipers/seals are a tough one to call, I have had seals that lasted years and others that lasted a couple of rides, so your guess is as good as(or better) than mine. For the couple of years that I was doing suspension work(moto-x), I have witnessed shims in base valves cracking, but to put a life span on them would be tough as well. Check valve? the Showa and Kyb forks I worked on didn't have one, I would guess, that if kepped clean, they would be very durable. Oil should be changed once a year minimum but rarely does(out of sight,out of mind). Hydraulic fluids are hydroscopic(they attract moisture) and contaminate easily, which effects its performance, so use your best judgment there. Good luck
Joined Jun 2004
380 Posts | 0+
Sandpoint ID
Re: fork rebuild
Taffy there is some parts thats not the same through the model years
02, 06 has 2fork bushings 03.04,05 has 3 bushings 02,03,04, has same
upper forktube 05,06 has a different taper on upper fork tube more even
flex under load I have hard time feeling the smother action 02,03 have
same ridged midvalve 04,05,06, has a flexible midvalve 02 has a softer
midvalve spring 04,05 has stiffer spring I like softer spring which is gentle
over loose rocks , there has been different midvalve gaps dont remember
what year ? but 1.5 is what you want it will change as you alter midvalve
shimstack, less than 4 24x.10 and the shim cracks and get sucked trough
piston port an 06 bottom valve stack may not work on 02 fork since 06
has different midvalve different oil and viscosity was discussed previously
but this is what I have experience SAE 5 above 40 F / 5 C and SAE 3.5
below 40 F/5 C since oil tends get thicker as the temp drops I been using
Golden spectro semi syn fork oil I mix 85/150(SAE 3.5) and 125/150 (SAE 7.5) 1 to 1 and thats very close to viscosity that WP uses There is
a bottomvalve that you adjust 4 ways externally high speed mid speed
low speed and suppleness The SS valve its like revalving with turn of screwdriverWeb Page Name
VIKING
Taffy there is some parts thats not the same through the model years
02, 06 has 2fork bushings 03.04,05 has 3 bushings 02,03,04, has same
upper forktube 05,06 has a different taper on upper fork tube more even
flex under load I have hard time feeling the smother action 02,03 have
same ridged midvalve 04,05,06, has a flexible midvalve 02 has a softer
midvalve spring 04,05 has stiffer spring I like softer spring which is gentle
over loose rocks , there has been different midvalve gaps dont remember
what year ? but 1.5 is what you want it will change as you alter midvalve
shimstack, less than 4 24x.10 and the shim cracks and get sucked trough
piston port an 06 bottom valve stack may not work on 02 fork since 06
has different midvalve different oil and viscosity was discussed previously
but this is what I have experience SAE 5 above 40 F / 5 C and SAE 3.5
below 40 F/5 C since oil tends get thicker as the temp drops I been using
Golden spectro semi syn fork oil I mix 85/150(SAE 3.5) and 125/150 (SAE 7.5) 1 to 1 and thats very close to viscosity that WP uses There is
a bottomvalve that you adjust 4 ways externally high speed mid speed
low speed and suppleness The SS valve its like revalving with turn of screwdriverWeb Page Name
VIKING
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
Re: fork rebuild
viking
you clearly know a hellof a lot about these things and i'm going to ask you a favour. please go back into your post and edit it with lots of full stops and commas as well as using lots of fresh lines.
please do that because i can sense that you've done a good article there fella!
regards
Taffy
viking
you clearly know a hellof a lot about these things and i'm going to ask you a favour. please go back into your post and edit it with lots of full stops and commas as well as using lots of fresh lines.
please do that because i can sense that you've done a good article there fella!
regards
Taffy
Re: fork rebuild
Taffy,
Do you have the 43mm forks? My specs are for 48, and my mentioned stacks probably won't apply if it is the smaller fork.
Taffy,
Do you have the 43mm forks? My specs are for 48, and my mentioned stacks probably won't apply if it is the smaller fork.
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
Re: fork rebuild
i have the 48s brendan like you.
i have taken down your numbers fella and i shall make 2006 the year i concentrate on my sussies (ok just the 450 piston to fit, the velocity stack, the K&N, the BV head, the ....). so i look forward to jargon busting and finding out about this black art.
regards
Taffy
i have the 48s brendan like you.
i have taken down your numbers fella and i shall make 2006 the year i concentrate on my sussies (ok just the 450 piston to fit, the velocity stack, the K&N, the BV head, the ....). so i look forward to jargon busting and finding out about this black art.
regards
Taffy
Re: fork rebuild
I can also give you the stacks that dwight rudder guy uses, also. Although, I am confounded as to how he rides that bike, being he is heavier and much faster than me. I sure would like to ride his setup, and see what it is like.
I can also give you the stacks that dwight rudder guy uses, also. Although, I am confounded as to how he rides that bike, being he is heavier and much faster than me. I sure would like to ride his setup, and see what it is like.
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
Re: fork rebuild
when DR was a UHE member he just pulled the middle compression shim out-a 16 i believe? why, what does he ride now?
i'm going to try 130mm air gap, 5W oil and then take it from there. i've been told today that 40 hours between overhauls is what i shouild be looking for by the sussie man.
Viking
i've checked and you're swedish living in the USA right!
here is my take on your write-up sir! apologies if i have highlighted this and offended you:
Some parts are not the same through the model years
fork bushes
02 and 06 have 2
03, 04, 05 have 3
fork tubes
02,03,04 have the same upper forktube
05,06 have a different taper on upper fork tube for less flex under load but
I have a hard time feeling the smoother action!
02,03 have same rigid mid-valve
04,05,06 have a flexible mid-valve
02 has a softer mid-valve spring
04,05 have a stiffer spring but I like the softer spring which is gentle over loose rocks, there have been different mid-valve gaps but i don't remember which years?
1.5 is what you want but it will change as you alter the mid-valve shim stack, less than 4 24x.10 and the shim cracks and get sucked trough
piston port and 06 bottom valve stack may not work on 02 forks since 06
has a different mid-valve.
different oil viscosity was discussed previously but this is what I have experienced: SAE 5 above 40 F / 5 C and SAE 3.5 below 40 F/5 C since oil tends get thicker as the temp drops I've been using Golden spectro semi syn fork oil. I mix a 85/150(SAE 3.5) ratio and 125/150 (SAE 7.5) ratio 1 to 1 (??? - Taffy) and thats very close to viscosity that WP uses.
There is a bottom valve that you can adjust 4 ways externally: high speed, mid speed, low speed and suppleness. The SS valve is like re-valving with a turn of the screwdriver.
Q?
i have hit a snag tonight which i need to put right. on the fork cap where the rebound clicks are, inside - the black pointed pin.
on one cap it's flush with the aluminium shoulder of tha cap and with the other that black poin sticks proud by 5mm. the flush one is in and the thing has 28 clicks in to out but the one with the black pin 'proud' just keeps spinning.
has the ball bearing come out of it's location?
regards
Taffy
when DR was a UHE member he just pulled the middle compression shim out-a 16 i believe? why, what does he ride now?
i'm going to try 130mm air gap, 5W oil and then take it from there. i've been told today that 40 hours between overhauls is what i shouild be looking for by the sussie man.
Viking
i've checked and you're swedish living in the USA right!
here is my take on your write-up sir! apologies if i have highlighted this and offended you:
Some parts are not the same through the model years
fork bushes
02 and 06 have 2
03, 04, 05 have 3
fork tubes
02,03,04 have the same upper forktube
05,06 have a different taper on upper fork tube for less flex under load but
I have a hard time feeling the smoother action!
02,03 have same rigid mid-valve
04,05,06 have a flexible mid-valve
02 has a softer mid-valve spring
04,05 have a stiffer spring but I like the softer spring which is gentle over loose rocks, there have been different mid-valve gaps but i don't remember which years?
1.5 is what you want but it will change as you alter the mid-valve shim stack, less than 4 24x.10 and the shim cracks and get sucked trough
piston port and 06 bottom valve stack may not work on 02 forks since 06
has a different mid-valve.
different oil viscosity was discussed previously but this is what I have experienced: SAE 5 above 40 F / 5 C and SAE 3.5 below 40 F/5 C since oil tends get thicker as the temp drops I've been using Golden spectro semi syn fork oil. I mix a 85/150(SAE 3.5) ratio and 125/150 (SAE 7.5) ratio 1 to 1 (??? - Taffy) and thats very close to viscosity that WP uses.
There is a bottom valve that you can adjust 4 ways externally: high speed, mid speed, low speed and suppleness. The SS valve is like re-valving with a turn of the screwdriver.
Q?
i have hit a snag tonight which i need to put right. on the fork cap where the rebound clicks are, inside - the black pointed pin.
on one cap it's flush with the aluminium shoulder of tha cap and with the other that black poin sticks proud by 5mm. the flush one is in and the thing has 28 clicks in to out but the one with the black pin 'proud' just keeps spinning.
has the ball bearing come out of it's location?
regards
Taffy
Re: fork rebuild
My head is spinning after reading this thread. :crazy:
Where's me claw hammer? :?
Log
My head is spinning after reading this thread. :crazy:
Where's me claw hammer? :?
Log
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
Re: fork rebuild
it's ok man, hang on tight. i just watched capricorn 1 for the 8th time and i'm telling ya that it might look impossible but we're gonna make it!
elliott bloody gould eat your heart out!
i've found out why the black pin is proud. and it is now to be cured in the morn! always knew that K-talk was good for something!
regards
taffy
it's ok man, hang on tight. i just watched capricorn 1 for the 8th time and i'm telling ya that it might look impossible but we're gonna make it!
elliott bloody gould eat your heart out!
i've found out why the black pin is proud. and it is now to be cured in the morn! always knew that K-talk was good for something!
regards
taffy
Joined Jun 2004
380 Posts | 0+
Sandpoint ID
Re: fork rebuild
Taffy sound like fork cap was not seated properly to piston rod and then
you adjusted rebound and the black pin got disconnected from adjust knob
I presume that still have rebound adjustment knob detent if not you lost
the spring and or ball, To prevent that from happening count clicks so you
know what setting you had then back out until its seat all the way backed
off when you assemble cartridge put piston rod in softfaced wise modretly
tight and screw down bottoming sleeve all the down thread until it runs
out of thread snug by hand now when screw down top cap a slight resistance is going be felt as top cap bottom out on piston rod continue
tighten until bottom sleeve screws up against top cap tighten down to
18 ft/lbs this way you will know positive that piston rod is seated and
adjustment screw can not be unseated I know this is a head scratcher
but once with parts in front of you it will make sense you mention earlier
about shock not having a valvecore its the allen screw on your shock
resorvior you have to use a special tool to pressurize shock res :roll:
VIKING
Taffy sound like fork cap was not seated properly to piston rod and then
you adjusted rebound and the black pin got disconnected from adjust knob
I presume that still have rebound adjustment knob detent if not you lost
the spring and or ball, To prevent that from happening count clicks so you
know what setting you had then back out until its seat all the way backed
off when you assemble cartridge put piston rod in softfaced wise modretly
tight and screw down bottoming sleeve all the down thread until it runs
out of thread snug by hand now when screw down top cap a slight resistance is going be felt as top cap bottom out on piston rod continue
tighten until bottom sleeve screws up against top cap tighten down to
18 ft/lbs this way you will know positive that piston rod is seated and
adjustment screw can not be unseated I know this is a head scratcher
but once with parts in front of you it will make sense you mention earlier
about shock not having a valvecore its the allen screw on your shock
resorvior you have to use a special tool to pressurize shock res :roll:
VIKING
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
Re: fork rebuild
viking
i repaired the problem by simply screwing the black pin in 1/2 a turn and then the rebound screw 'took control' and the pin came out and went in with the rebound screw. easy!
i merely want to look at the rear shock for now. to study it and to understand it. i will read it several times until i understand all the functions in my own mind.
logjump
why is your head spinning?
regards
Taffy
viking
i repaired the problem by simply screwing the black pin in 1/2 a turn and then the rebound screw 'took control' and the pin came out and went in with the rebound screw. easy!
i merely want to look at the rear shock for now. to study it and to understand it. i will read it several times until i understand all the functions in my own mind.
logjump
why is your head spinning?
regards
Taffy
Joined Jun 2005
449 Posts | 1+
Kings Farth
Re: fork rebuild
Taffy, it scares me every time the head is spinning on people. It has been like this all since I saw the film "the exorsist" in the seventies.
Taffy, it scares me every time the head is spinning on people. It has been like this all since I saw the film "the exorsist" in the seventies.
Joined Jun 2004
380 Posts | 0+
Sandpoint ID
Re: fork rebuild
Taffy here is shock bleeding trick invert main body fill half way insert
piston/rod assembly push down until oil coming through piston fill oil to the top install seal head snap ring remove comp adjuster install clear
plastic tubing that fits snug in the hole cycle shock until there is no air
set nitrogen piston lay down with comp adj. hole facing up pull hose out
install comp adj. have fun
VIKING
Taffy here is shock bleeding trick invert main body fill half way insert
piston/rod assembly push down until oil coming through piston fill oil to the top install seal head snap ring remove comp adjuster install clear
plastic tubing that fits snug in the hole cycle shock until there is no air
set nitrogen piston lay down with comp adj. hole facing up pull hose out
install comp adj. have fun
VIKING
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
Re: fork rebuild
going back to the front end viking, i will be drilling the inner chrome leg at 18cm first and then i will try some RT type compression piston modifications. checking the preload and getting the air gap right.
i'm also buying some bits to make a subtank in the handlebars. it appears that the bars might hold the correct amount of an air chamber. also 'we' enduro riders run with wrap-around bark busters which will truly block the ends if i don't plug with silicone/devcon etc first. i like the way it bleeds back to the forks and they are VERY pleased with the results at Katoomtalk.
http://www.synergyseals.com/index.php?page=air_bars
regards
Taffy
going back to the front end viking, i will be drilling the inner chrome leg at 18cm first and then i will try some RT type compression piston modifications. checking the preload and getting the air gap right.
i'm also buying some bits to make a subtank in the handlebars. it appears that the bars might hold the correct amount of an air chamber. also 'we' enduro riders run with wrap-around bark busters which will truly block the ends if i don't plug with silicone/devcon etc first. i like the way it bleeds back to the forks and they are VERY pleased with the results at Katoomtalk.
http://www.synergyseals.com/index.php?page=air_bars
regards
Taffy
Joined Jun 2004
380 Posts | 0+
Sandpoint ID
Re: fork rebuild
Taffy do you jump big ? if no save your cash, the idea is that you can run
higher oil level = more progression less chance to bottom fork
RT is that Race tech ? this is my personal opinion I dont think that bigger
piston ports are nessesary stock flows plenty this is my theory if you let
bottom valve bleed out all oil or even good portion in doing so rebound
have compromised since rebound side of cartridge was not filled completely my first focus would be mid valve mod the valve to be flexible and go with a newer style rebound stack I was never thrilled with rebound in my 01 400 which had the 02 stack I didnt follow you drilling at 18 cm ?
Merry Xmas
VIKING
Taffy do you jump big ? if no save your cash, the idea is that you can run
higher oil level = more progression less chance to bottom fork
RT is that Race tech ? this is my personal opinion I dont think that bigger
piston ports are nessesary stock flows plenty this is my theory if you let
bottom valve bleed out all oil or even good portion in doing so rebound
have compromised since rebound side of cartridge was not filled completely my first focus would be mid valve mod the valve to be flexible and go with a newer style rebound stack I was never thrilled with rebound in my 01 400 which had the 02 stack I didnt follow you drilling at 18 cm ?
Merry Xmas
VIKING
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