Joined Jun 2007
4K Posts | 1K+
south east WA Australia
up to you
try some and see
make sure the main springs can handle the extra travel first
the old TO springs are shorter but also stiffer i think so the result is probably similar
try some and see
make sure the main springs can handle the extra travel first
the old TO springs are shorter but also stiffer i think so the result is probably similar
Joined Jun 2007
4K Posts | 1K+
south east WA Australia
Joined Jun 2007
4K Posts | 1K+
south east WA Australia
nope hes done it allready actually one better and gone no springs
doesn't matter.
fitted a set of ohlins TTX to a katoom 450SX today... ohh baby the conventional design stuff is plasticene in comparison, Backfill ports all round for the OC forks !
Onward and upward
ccasion5:
doesn't matter.
fitted a set of ohlins TTX to a katoom 450SX today... ohh baby the conventional design stuff is plasticene in comparison, Backfill ports all round for the OC forks !
Onward and upward
ccasion5:
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
Taffy said:
Back to the MX track at easttrax and the bike corners beautifully now. My forks bottomed easily again even though I had 110mm air gap. they felt good in the woods a fortnight ago but I need to stop this bottoming out?
the worst was when I landed a fat flat jump and had to be braking as i landed. so that would be low speed damping right?
I need to slow the last half of the suspension up but I can't decide on MV or BV? anyone want their 10pence worth?
do I have enough cartridge pressure through the BV - it looks to me like I do?
My first thoughts are to risk a smaller MV float at 0.8mm by also adding perhaps a 23 and an 18 for
23, 23, (23), 20, 18, (18), 16, 14, and a 13?
perhaps one at a time but you get the picture? maybe I now have too much free bleed and need to go back to std BV pistons?
regards
Taffy
Joined Jun 2007
4K Posts | 1K+
south east WA Australia
yes if you'd like a change for fun I think its worth trying standard BVs and use a 2 stage mid to soften it if needed remember usually the little MV spring takes more and more prelaod as float is reduced and that really adds a lot of useless harshness
maybe try something like this
MV body
24
12
rest of MV.
and 1.2mm bleed hole at the mid is worth testing too, usually the rebound really likes it
depends how high you were
imp:
probably long stroke MS and you can think of that as HS for the BV but with all the bleeds im only guessing
maybe try something like this
MV body
24
12
rest of MV.
and 1.2mm bleed hole at the mid is worth testing too, usually the rebound really likes it
depends how high you were
imp:probably long stroke MS and you can think of that as HS for the BV but with all the bleeds im only guessing
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
It was one of those small fast jumps that kept you 4 feet up and as you landed it was anchors on. BUT i MEAN anchors on! I heard it clonk a few times during the day despite winding the comp clicker up 3, 6 and then 9 more.
I'm changing oil this week I reckon to Motul just to see as I have been using some cheap stuff.
I look at my BV and I can't see anything weak about it? but the MV is missing many shims that the fatties would need....
regards
Taffy
I'm changing oil this week I reckon to Motul just to see as I have been using some cheap stuff.
I look at my BV and I can't see anything weak about it? but the MV is missing many shims that the fatties would need....
regards
Taffy
Joined Jun 2007
4K Posts | 1K+
south east WA Australia
best thing I did for increasing bottoming resistance in braking was increasing the travel
once you get up around 310 315mm its a whole new fork, I have 322!
If I had to stick to just one mod, increasing the travel would be it.
once you get up around 310 315mm its a whole new fork, I have 322!
If I had to stick to just one mod, increasing the travel would be it.
bushie
Can you point me to an article on how to increase the travel in the forks.
has it something to do with these topout springs.
Regards Hilmar
Can you point me to an article on how to increase the travel in the forks.
has it something to do with these topout springs.
Regards Hilmar
Hey Taffy,
I've been following this thread since the beginning.
Dude, me being a rider of larger stature, I've been playin' with WP (KTM) suspension for quite a few years now- for me and my friends.
Your waaay over thinking the technological. The only way to get to the bottom of your suspension set up is to get your *** out on a regular basis and ride- Can't be done in a garage, no matter how hard you try.
I know you UK guys don't have a long riding season and finding offroad space is pretty much limited for testing, beating your head against the wall at home must be frustrating.
Motul 5wt is a good oil- stiff at first, but after a couple of miles it heats up and works well for the rest of the day, better than most oils regularly offered at shops.
If you really want an experts opinion on how to set your boingers up for enduro work, contact Jeff Slavens at
http://slavensracing.com/
Very approachable dude, with many years of experience under his belt.
This is in no way a dig at you, Your knowledge about bergs far surpasses mine- but I hope it helps-
Dan
Hope you can understand my California accent, I sure as &*^%$&& can't understand yours at times.. :mrgreen:
I've been following this thread since the beginning.
Dude, me being a rider of larger stature, I've been playin' with WP (KTM) suspension for quite a few years now- for me and my friends.
Your waaay over thinking the technological. The only way to get to the bottom of your suspension set up is to get your *** out on a regular basis and ride- Can't be done in a garage, no matter how hard you try.
I know you UK guys don't have a long riding season and finding offroad space is pretty much limited for testing, beating your head against the wall at home must be frustrating.
Motul 5wt is a good oil- stiff at first, but after a couple of miles it heats up and works well for the rest of the day, better than most oils regularly offered at shops.
If you really want an experts opinion on how to set your boingers up for enduro work, contact Jeff Slavens at
http://slavensracing.com/
Very approachable dude, with many years of experience under his belt.
This is in no way a dig at you, Your knowledge about bergs far surpasses mine- but I hope it helps-
Dan
Hope you can understand my California accent, I sure as &*^%$&& can't understand yours at times.. :mrgreen:
Joined Jun 2007
4K Posts | 1K+
south east WA Australia
The_Force said:
couple pages back in this thread is about all you'll find on the net
you can make the forks compress more by shortening the spring guides untill the dust wiper hits the aluminium axle clamp at bottoming or the chrome tube hits the underside of the top fork cap.
you can remove the axle clamp and take some alloy off it and you can grind a bit of metal off the top of the chrome tube I didn't have to do either but weed did (i think)
when doing this you have to make sure there is clearance between the BV stem and the MV stem at full bottoming. you can shorten the stems and the nuts and you can machine the BV down to about 3.5mm thick if you convert the checkplate on the BV to a flapper shim so it doesn't have to float for refil. also check what the front tyre is doing with the headers/frame.
you can also make the forks extend more and yes the easy way to do that is to shorten the TO springs or remove them
if you have zero preload on the main springs and a good HS rebound damping TO springs are not needed IMHO.
you can also extend the cartridge at the top until the MV piston band runs out of cartridge ID.
easy way is to put a 4mm thick washer between the bottoming cone and the cartridge. harder is to make cartridge extensions.
there are some pics of this stuff in my gallery.
the advantage is easy to explain:
with 322mm travel I have all the initial plushness of 4.4n springs with zero prelaod and 150mm oil level but at the same time I have all the bottoming resistance of 5.2n springs and 100mm oil level or there abouts
you also have to make sure your springs can handle the extra travel without coil binding.
Thanks bushie
This sound like to much work for a suspension novice like me.
but one thing in my forks i have the wrong race tech spring its measurements are 42,7x493mm and are for a honda showa forks
it is 15mm shorter would that be a problem?
Regards Hilmar
This sound like to much work for a suspension novice like me.
but one thing in my forks i have the wrong race tech spring its measurements are 42,7x493mm and are for a honda showa forks
it is 15mm shorter would that be a problem?
Regards Hilmar
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
can't agree bushie!The_Force said:
first of all, all the forks up to 2006 can hit the dust seals against the base but after that there will always be a 5mm gap as the chrome legs were made longer.
in practical terms the reason the reason the legs don't bottom out is because the bottoming cones hydro lock. go into the doc heimar and look for a photo of a long bottoming cone that was drilled twice.
the other problem is getting the right oil in so that you can use all the travel. go for 10ml/cc less next time and if that makes a difference. if not - as it didn't for me, you need to read this thread for how at the beginning I managed to go from 130 air gap to 110 just by changing the valving at the BV and the MV to even things up a bit.
my legs now take another 50+cc each.
regards
Taffy
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
I'm going for A MV change.
a 22 in and see how it goes. does the fact that I wish I had more slow rebound say anything?
I may have to thank about that free bleed increase in the BV pistons with the drill mod. so I may prepare two standard pistons from some forks I have here.
regards
Taffy
a 22 in and see how it goes. does the fact that I wish I had more slow rebound say anything?
I may have to thank about that free bleed increase in the BV pistons with the drill mod. so I may prepare two standard pistons from some forks I have here.
regards
Taffy
Joined Jun 2007
4K Posts | 1K+
south east WA Australia
Taffy said:
read weeds posts re increasing travel pre 2006
the chrome legs aren't a problem on 2006 up, they may be longer but thats not stopping us using full travel, you can simply make the spring guides 5mm shorter and gain 5mm travel provided the tyre doesn't hit the header/frame and the BV/MV are clear. my dust wiper goes all the way to the axle clamp and there is still clearance between the top of the tube and the bottom of the fork cap.
FWIW the 28mm cartridge tubes are longer in 07 08 than 06
I don't go slow enough to have this issue :lol: drilling the BC in the 48s with standard travel for my terrain is majorly out of the question just MHO
using all the travel depends on how much you've got. most of the time I use 315mm travel, lovely smooth no clunks ever and absolutely no desire to have them any softer. 320 is used if I stuff up real bad and it still doesn't clunk as there is another 2mm left.
the focus should be on bike balance getting the front to work in unison with the back, you need the back to be a certain stiffness at various speeds to hold up under power and make to bike work for your weight then the forks need to be stiff enough at the appropriate speeds so the back doesn't overpower the front in rocking chassis movements.
its more complicated than that as you know Taffy but important for beginners/lurkers to try and see the whole picture. just concentrating on getting the forks to use all the travel can lead to a bike that just doesn't work optimally particulary if they're not adjusting or revalving the shock much.
whiskey ? Burbon? Old spice? :twisted:
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
well sibnce I last reported I have only ridden once but today I tried out the bike at Easttrax and had in the meantime done this:
I tried a second 16 in the MV but it was dreadful! like riding a hammer drill! luckily this was just jet testing so I withdrew that PDQ and fitted a 22 instead.
MV: 23, 23, "22", 20, 18, 16, 14, 13 and float was down to 0.85mm. I could tell this had strengthened things but still I bottom out. I did however go to 115mm air gap from 110mm just to make sure that my suspension is working and not oil lock. I can get back to 110mm as a final touch i think.
with 10 extra clicks on the comp I finally stopped it bottoming which is a first.
I can't get this relationship between the BV and MV right and which i need next?
I figure with all the stuff i've been doing to the MV in recent rides i think I need to add in one or even two BV odd numbers like a 21, 19 or 17.
24, 24, 14, 24, 24, 24, 22, 20, 18, 16, 15, 12, 11, [email protected].
regards
Taffy
I tried a second 16 in the MV but it was dreadful! like riding a hammer drill! luckily this was just jet testing so I withdrew that PDQ and fitted a 22 instead.
MV: 23, 23, "22", 20, 18, 16, 14, 13 and float was down to 0.85mm. I could tell this had strengthened things but still I bottom out. I did however go to 115mm air gap from 110mm just to make sure that my suspension is working and not oil lock. I can get back to 110mm as a final touch i think.
with 10 extra clicks on the comp I finally stopped it bottoming which is a first.
I can't get this relationship between the BV and MV right and which i need next?
I figure with all the stuff i've been doing to the MV in recent rides i think I need to add in one or even two BV odd numbers like a 21, 19 or 17.
24, 24, 14, 24, 24, 24, 22, 20, 18, 16, 15, 12, 11, [email protected].
regards
Taffy
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
did my first enduro for a year and a half today - damn near killed me!
the suspension and handling is sublime - can still do a little more but its the best it's ever been.
my problem now is that the LS rebound is awful and I'm being pinged off the top of low speed rollers. what can I do?
any kind of roller, mound, up hill top out and ping! I'm gone.
i presently have
24d x 4, 15, 20, 19, 18, 116, 14, 12, 11, [email protected], [email protected], stopper.
change the splitter is one idea?
toughen the stack, is another?
I have 48 springs and I have just 110-115 air gap but the air gap seems to have little to do with this.
I was toying with going to a softer stack and winding the adjuster/free bleed in. that way the LS is restricted and what would have been a harsh HS is now a softer stack and softer.
regards
Taffy
the suspension and handling is sublime - can still do a little more but its the best it's ever been.
my problem now is that the LS rebound is awful and I'm being pinged off the top of low speed rollers. what can I do?
any kind of roller, mound, up hill top out and ping! I'm gone.
i presently have
24d x 4, 15, 20, 19, 18, 116, 14, 12, 11, [email protected], [email protected], stopper.
change the splitter is one idea?
toughen the stack, is another?
I have 48 springs and I have just 110-115 air gap but the air gap seems to have little to do with this.
I was toying with going to a softer stack and winding the adjuster/free bleed in. that way the LS is restricted and what would have been a harsh HS is now a softer stack and softer.
regards
Taffy
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