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CDI problem?

Joined Aug 2006
31 Posts | 0+
Cyprus
Tried to start a friends 2004 FS650 today but no go. We checked everything, timing, valve clearance, spark but it just wouldn't fire up. It was backfiring and shooting flames. To me it sounded/; flet like the spark was too advanced but theres no adjustment on these right?

I swapped his cdi over onto my 450 and mine wouldn't start either. Put my cdi back on my bike and it fired up no problem. Both CDI's have the same part number. I didn't want to put my cdi on his bike for fear of messing mine up but i cant understand whats happening with the advance. Any ideas anyone?
 
Did this bike stop while running or has it been sitting for a while or ?
 
put a new plug in it , sounds to me like the plug aint firing under compression ,and firing when the valves are on the overlap , on the non compression stroke, happened to me , after much messing about .and snapping the kick start clean in half. and if you use ngk buy two and try them both before you strip it completely.
 
just re read your post, does the plug spark at tdc? stick your thumb over the plug hole and check its firing at the same time as it blows your thumb off.
 
NSman: the engines just had a full rebuild but like i said everything has been checked and rechecked and all is ok but for the timing of the spark i think.


Scrapview, so what did you do to resolve the problem of firing when the valves were on overlap? . I've tried 3 different new plugs all with the same result so ruled that out. Thanks for the tip, tomorrow i'll see when it blows my thumb off relative to spark firing
 
xristos said:
NSman: the engines just had a full rebuild but like i said everything has been checked and rechecked and all is ok but for the timing of the spark i think.


Scrapview, so what did you do to resolve the problem of firing when the valves were on overlap? . I've tried 3 different new plugs all with the same result so ruled that out. Thanks for the tip, tomorrow i'll see when it blows my thumb off relative to spark firing

Xristos,

The plug fires on overlap, or the top of the exhaust stroke every time, what scrapeview is telling you is the under compression there is not enough voltage to jump the gap, and that this can be caused by a bad spark plug. Remember, the plug fires everytime the piston is at TDC, not matter if it's on compression or exhaust.

Second, are you sure that the part numbers are the same for the CDI's? I checked my parts book for the 04 and the 450 CDI part # is 800.39.031.000 and the CDI part # for the 650 is 800.39.031.200. And since it pops and flames on the 650, but nothing on your 450, I would say this kind of confirms this.

Here is some other possible electrical problems: #1 The plug cap is bad, un screw the plug cap from the coil wire and use and ohm meter and read through the plug cap from top to bottom. If your ohm meter is not an auto ranging meter, set the range to measure up to at least 10Kilo ohms, your plug should read right around 5Kilo ohms. #2 Disconnect the kill switch where it connects to the coil and isolate/insulate that wire coming from the coil and try and start it, if the plug cap checked out okay.

Next, you haven't told us if you were using the choke or not when trying to start it. It could be that the carb is plugged up and may need a thorough cleaning.


And you are correct, there is no adjusting the timing on the Kokusan ignition bikes. Unless the following is true, as it will have a direct effect on timing.

The worst case scenario is that the cam was not timed correctly when the motor was re assembled. The only way to know for sure is to set the motor on TDC on what you think is the compression stroke, insert the engine locking bolt in the front of the engine pull the rocker box, and then look at the cam wheel from the left side of the motor, you should see two dots on the cam wheel close to the chain, one in the front and one in the rear. They should be even with the top of the head, and the cam lobes should be facing down towards the head. If this is not the case you will have to remove the cam chain tensioner, split the chain, time the cam correctly, and then re assemble the cam chain. The 04 repair manual is free to down load from the Husaberg.se site and has step by step directions and pictures.

The only other thing I can think of is that the valves have been adjusted on TDC of the exhaust stroke, or overlap.

Hope this helps,

Dale
 
Dale thanks for all that. I'm struggling to keep my eyes open, gonna go through all this again tomorrow and see what happens. Cheers, hopefully I can post some good news tomorrow
 
DaleEO said:
You're welcome, best of luck! Let us know how it turns out.

Dale

Xristos, To check the spark performance remove plug and cap and see what sort of distance you can pull the spark from the end of the lead to the engine.
On a normal kick 13mm plus no problem., if not this will be your problem the spark will be getting extinguished by the compression.

Regards

Sparks.
 
DaleEO said:
You're welcome, best of luck! Let us know how it turns out.

Dale

Xristos, To check the spark performance remove plug and cap and see what sort of distance you can pull the spark from the end of the lead to the engine.
On a normal kick 13mm plus no problem., if not this will be your problem the spark will be getting extinguished by the compression.

Regards

Sparks.
 
sparks said:
DaleEO said:
You're welcome, best of luck! Let us know how it turns out.

Dale

Xristos, To check the spark performance remove plug and cap and see what sort of distance you can pull the spark from the end of the lead to the engine.
On a normal kick 13mm plus no problem., if not this will be your problem the spark will be getting extinguished by the compression.

Regards

Sparks.

Something like this??? http://www.toolfetch.com/Category/Autom ... THE404.htm
 
Thanks, I'll check that out when I get back to the workshop on Monday. Also I am currently only on a dial up connection (yes, people still use dial up in parts of Cyprus!). I had a busy day at work so the only thing i had time to test today was the ohm reading of the plug cap which showed 5.7 kilo ohms.

To answer your previous question l tried starting with and without using choke, hotstart, both together etc. The carb was cleaned before installation after engine rebuild.

what colour should the wire be from the kill switch to the coil? I could only see a bunch of brown wires coming down together from behind the mask to the coil.

Also checked tose part numbers, and both are the same number. both bikes are 2004, one is an fs650, the other a fc450. I or my friend haven't owned the bikes from new and its not uncommon for parts to get mixed and matched over here so maybe thats what happened re the cdi's. The number on it is 800.39.0310.000
 
xristos said:
Thanks, I'll check that out when I get back to the workshop on Monday. Also I am currently only on a dial up connection (yes, people still use dial up in parts of Cyprus!). I had a busy day at work so the only thing i had time to test today was the ohm reading of the plug cap which showed 5.7 kilo ohms.

To answer your previous question l tried starting with and without using choke, hotstart, both together etc. The carb was cleaned before installation after engine rebuild.

what colour should the wire be from the kill switch to the coil? I could only see a bunch of brown wires coming down together from behind the mask to the coil.

Also checked tose part numbers, and both are the same number. both bikes are 2004, one is an fs650, the other a fc450. I or my friend haven't owned the bikes from new and its not uncommon for parts to get mixed and matched over here so maybe thats what happened re the cdi's. The number on it is 800.39.0310.000

The part number you have quoted is for the 450 the 650 part number is
800.39.0310.200.
But it should still fire up the engine OK, the differences are in the advance curve for each engine size, there is a different cdi for the 550 as well.
After trying to start the engine did you remove the plug was it wet?, if so I suggest failing spark under compression and the back firing is like Scrapview described.
Do my performance test and see what you get. The Kokasan ignition prodces a lot of punch at low RPM.

Hey Dale that's a good gismo you have there a must at 11 bucks, it keeps the spark contained.

Regards

Sparks.
 
Further stator test,
Resistance between Red/Black White/Black 15 Ohms, peak voltage on a good kick decomp lever pulled in 35 Volts AC.

Regards

Sparks.
 
well after another full day testing and swapping parts between my bike and the 650 I think I've finally isolated the problem and I wish it actually was the cdi now. Even though all the readings and tests were good I still started swapping and testing again. After changing the pick-up trigger over, I turned the engine with the starter without stator cover on to see the gap between flywheel and trigger....but i never expected to see a wobbling flywheel! It looks as though the crank is bent. Its not something we would of ever suspected because the crank was split and a new rod kit was just recently installed by apparantly Cyprus's best machinist. I picked up the crank from him myself and he assured me all went well and he balanced it too.

Now I'm used to people talking **** here but I never expected it from this guy, he's got a great reputation. I'm no expert but i figure that if he didn't botch up the job himself, he'd surely have noticed the crank was wonky and would have at least let me know about it.

there are scratch marks now on the inside of the flywheel from the stator rubbing on it while we've been trying to start it. I feel a bit stupid for not seeing it earlier, could have saved a lot of time and head scratching, but thanks to everyone anyway who gave input for a possible fix.

Cyprus has a lot of great places to ride but it has some major negatives when it comes to spare parts for bikes and precision workmanship. It looks like we're gonna send the engine cases and crank out of the country to get fixed properly.
 

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