Billet cylinder head

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Taffy said:
you'll need sponge in the neck of that somewhere to stop the oil just walking straight out!
Click to expand...
Absolutely! I'm planning in a vertical hose leading to a "bottle" with tank foam. I have that arrangement in the existing vent.

Taffy said:
well, whatever, it is exciting. we had two Swedes over last week who hadn't heard of you Mats! we had to put it right!
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Haha! Most people need to have references that make themselves seem normally sane. I am such a reference to some people... :D
 
Kevin Cameron and before him the late Gordon Jennings have written many amazing articles for cycle world and the late cycle magazine on pretty much anything to do with motorcycle engineering you can think of. ( I have a large collection of various motorcycle magazines back to the 1960's). Regarding connecting rods, some new ktms have a pankl rod that apparently has 2 pressed in plain bearings in a one piece rod.
http://motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News ... -8535.aspx
 
according to Cameron (not David!) the sheer solidness of plain bearing mains and big ends means better squish and converting more energy into power. ad ******** ignition is a big thing! he seems to know the advance on everything ever made and combustion efficiency, although always important is not a mystery!

presumably the Pankl rod has a smaller big end to the rod making a substantial weight saving? I failed to see any grooves in the big end but I did see a groove in the little end! the Fi looks like that 44 could be a 46/47 very easily!

regards

Taffy
 
......and just as you thought you knew something about something you read stuff by KC and you just draw yourself mack a bit..... :oops:

Taffy
 
I have just come back from the first races of the Nordic Supermono Cup in Botnia Ring, Finland. The engine, cylinder head and EFI as hold together now for 2-3 hours! I have not raced properly the last 3 years, so I was very "rusty". However I managed to pull myself together and set the second fastest qualifying lap! I finished 3rd in the first race in "ages"! :D The engine was running all right, but it seemed like 10-15 horses were on the run since the last dyno session. I did some minor adjustments to foot pegs, coil on plug, brake fluid and mounted a new rear tyre for the Sunday practise. Now it was a quite different matter, and I set a more competitive lap time. All was fine, when, at the end of the straight, the right hand side crank case cracked! Oil was coming out and found my rear wheel. I low sided at the next coming left hander. No drama, but quite annoying! The old bugger is back and still has potential to be reckoned with! :twisted:

No it's back in the work shop to repair and find the missing horses!
 
what a crapper!

where was the crack from and too?

CNC home made cases next

when is a Husaberg no longer a Husaberg? :twisted: :twisted:

this unrelaibility will get you down if you're not careful. you are becoming:
A MARTYR TO THE CAUSE!!

it happened so quickly that another set of cases alone won't cure it, the design needs advancement - but then you knew that anyway!

regards

Taffy
 
@Taffy: It was from the right hand side main bearing and all the way to the front. It didn't continue to the left hand side casing.. :wink:

I have used this particular crank case since 2003, so I guess at some point, the fatigue wins.

Dear Taffy, I became a martyr to the cause already when deciding to manufacture a DOHC head with modern porting and fuel injection, and mount it on a Husaberg 650! :D
 
2008 cases?

or must it say "made in Sweden"!


also: please check out the stresses that a con rod that is too short will produce?

80mm stroke engine wants a rod with a 165mm centre to centre not 135mm. 30mm difference.

Taffy
 
135 mm is pretty short !! but not for case stress i guess , for piston to cylinder friction , thats for sure .

we run 141.5 mm on ours Ktm 80 mm stroke , witch is not too bad , 145 mm will be the rigth choice .

165 mm will make your conrod too heavy and will affect the combustion speed , it's the choisce of short track engine who rev's 9 to 10 k and have no top speed .

what about vibration ?? , is your engine is running a balancer or not , and what is your balance factor ?
 
135mm is short. Around 145mm would be OK I think. With a steel liner I could go for 104mm bore and with a 10mm spacer a taller rod would also fit. The length would have to be in multiples of half of what the cam chain can be increased with.

Right now it all seems a bit distant, as I'm recovering from a broken Achillies. From playing a "one ball game" with my son... So the next three races went down the drain. :(

Firstly I will have to design an exhaust system that facilitates the built in power, without the dip at 7,5k. Then repairing the crash damages and get it on the dyno. After 8 weeks the "Stormtrooper-boot" on my left foot will get off, then I have 2 weeks to the next races... There is a plan, but unfortunately it doesn't involve so much development, only recovering...
 
Dr_C said:
135mm is short. Around 145mm would be OK I think. With a steel liner I could go for 104mm bore and with a 10mm spacer a taller rod would also fit. The length would have to be in multiples of half of what the cam chain can be increased with.
Click to expand...
incorrect! I know what you are thinking....+9.5mm/19mm etc.

don't forget that all along you could have been running the 8mm links from the KTM. their cam sprocket top and bottom go straight on. I have the cam sprocket blanks for guestimating what you can go up by. I'll add a photo sometime although I think I once did this years ago.

also, you are in a race with the Norwegians. The British once raced the Norwegians 104 years ago and lost! (3 lives actually!)

I have found a rod - aftermarket from Yamaha. It looks promising......below I have copied and pasted in:

I have found a rod!
It is 145mm centre to centre which means instead of a 70L cam chain you need a 72 link.

The little end is 22mm but with a bush it is 20mm!
The big end pin is 34mm not 35mm, the inside eye of the rod is therefore also 1mm smaller. but I would try and get 3.5mm roller pins and the 35mm big end bearing. So Husaberg pin at 35mm, this rod with 3.5mm roller pins and not 4mm then you’re OK.

The camchain is 19mm per link. So you only want the whole lot to move higher by 9.5mm in total.

I would think the top 1 of the 3 liner O rings becomes useless – maybe even two O rings! So that only one ring works! The idea is easily changeable. It would cost you the rod with machining, the spacer and the cost of pressing the crank.

The alternative number two is an offset pin that makes the stroke 1mm longer. And then the packer needs to be 9mm and not 10mm

Because you have not increased the stroke you only have to lift the liner 10mm

New ratio goes from
1.69 to 1 aspect ratio to 1.81 to 1 AR.

The nice thing is: if it works you could look at a bespoke (one-off) 155mm C to C rod and new liner.

I think the rod would be 160gbp plus: special big end bearing, the machining, plus the little end bush, plus maybe you should polish and peen before you start?

Just an idea hey!

so that is it.

there is one other thing I would consider as well. getting a 35.02mm pin and welding it 100% into one crank web/flywheel. then press the other flywheel on, balance and true it etc and then weld again. finally have the pin ground down to 35.00mm for a truly true crank with great strength.

one of the things I learnt from READING the KC book is that 3mm rollers were where it was at (until they stopped developing roller big end type cranks).

I have oversize liner O rings by 0.5mm but even one of them could put undue pressure through the liner and cause a seizure....I don't know. I'm sure valid tests could be done.

regards

Taffy
 
race+chain+_1__001.JPG

this is the discs that you try the chain on. if this works you then make the sprockets.

53+219+cam+chain+tests+_12_.JPG

with a standard 650 the lin just doesn't come close enough. after calculations it was worked out that 0.3mm removed would do it. Husabergs come with 1.3mm squish so you can guess the next stage!

regards

Taffy
 
I've found you the perfect con rod!

it is from a racing engine.
43 big end eye for a 35mm big end bearing
20mm little end
20mm wide top and bottom
H-section

I think the centre to centre was around 160mm. the engine runs 90 x 78mm so I question the weight of your piston against it? didn't get this for you.

regards

Taffy
 
Thank you for your interest and tips, Taffy!

I'm going for this set-up:
10,0-10,7mm head packer (depending on thickness of gasket)
Custom design sheet metal gasket (already got a sample)
104mm steel liner
Mahle custom pistons (reducing compression to appr. 13,5:1)
Conrod 145mm c-c (Carillio, Arrow or something)

And the taller engine calls for:
CrMo tube frame (to make room for a 10-11mm taller engine)
CrMo tube single sided swing arm (to be able to use swing arm pivot shaft as rear engine mount, this to move engine 55mm back and make place for nicer primaries)
The frame part holding the swing arm pivot milled in aluminium, CrMo-tubing to be bolted to it.
I will reuse the rest from my existing bike.

This is enough work for one winter, don't you think?

:mrgreen:
 
I can't repeat enough times that you have to lengthen the engine by EXACTLY the length of a chain link. not inner and outer just the outer. OR you can change to a different pitch and borrow my special alloy sprockets. and don't say that you haven't seen them as they are at the top of the opening page and have been for weeks!

why not consider this speedway rod? you pretty much do the opposite to whatever is recommended ALL THE TIME but well....there may be a first! :cheers: :cheers:

regards

Taffy
 
Taffy,
if you remember. I wrote this a couple of posts ago: "The length would have to be in multiples of half of what the cam chain can be increased with"

Read carefully and you will hopefully notice that I am, like yourself, talking about one link!

The head packer will not be EXACTLY one link thick, as my coming head gasket will be approximately 0,7 mm compressed. So in order to obtain the required cam chain tension, thickness of the head packer will have to be very precise.

No fiddling around with additional bushings in either small or big end. I have no good experience with that. I want a steel Carillio rod, made to my specifications.

Why would I need to replace my existing cam chain? I have no issues with the OEM so far (10 racing seasons).

What I havent decided yet is wether to go for one or two cam links taller rod (1,81 or 1,92 in rod/stroke-ratio). OEM is 1,69. Formula 1 Engines are up to 2,5 or even higher to help pistons and cranks surviving the insane rpms.Going from 1,69 to 1,92 will still have to be considered a moderate change. I'm just giving the piston. sleeve, rings, crank, mains a better chance of surviving a race weekend. :D
 
but you don't read my comments at all!

a) i brought the subject up
b) I mentioned you need to go in link synchro

the cam chain I talk about is used in Husqvarnas and KTMs. it is Husaberg that are the odd ones out!

regards

Taffy
 
Taffy said:
but you don't read my comments at all!

a) i brought the subject up
b) I mentioned you need to go in link synchro

the cam chain I talk about is used in Husqvarnas and KTMs. it is Husaberg that are the odd ones out!

regards

Taffy
Click to expand...
Taffy,
I have read your posts a couple of times. I honestly do not know what you think I have missed? At least 2 things might cause this misunderstanding (if we are talking about a misunderstanding that is):
1. English is not my native tongue, which may have a negative impact my ability to tell general descriptions from recommendations or ironic comments.
2. If I choose not to follow some of your recommendations, it doesn't necessarily mean that I do not understand them.

With this post I do not whish to offend, harm or in any other way diminish you or your skills/experience. I am very happy with the interest you and others in the community has shown this (too) long lasting project of mine!

My project/engine is now far from OEM, which makes me have to take different things into account. I do not have so much time to spent in front of the computer, that I can describe every little detail that will affect decisions, measures, choices and compromises. So if I'm economical with words, which may appear haughty, it is only how I have to put my priorities.

Now... Tomorrow I will put the engine/bike together, dress up in my leathers, and measure my bikes' existing front/rear weight distribution, with and without rider/fuel. Tedious but necessary to help deciding where to place the swingarm pivot shaft in my frame/swingarm to come.

Have a nice one!
 

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