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Bike out for a short ride - lost coolant

H

Hannu

Joined Jan 2008
84 Posts | 0+
Finland
I just took my 450 out today for a short ride as I got it registered street legal. Went for a short ride, came back home and realized that steam and smoke were coming out of the engine and exhaust..(piston, rings etc)
It had probably 2hours after the last overhaul... The coolant was empty and I think it's time to take it apart again. This time I will do it myself. Any worst/best case scenarios?
 
check that it's not the seal in the sidecover first. never re-use a headgasket = it always finishes in tears. check the gasket in the sidecover doesn't sit on the 'O' ring. even if you have coolant in the oil it could come via the 'O' rings on your linar.

regards

Taffy
 
Hannu
Was there any coolant in the oil?
What work was done on the last overhaul?

Coops
 
Happened so far: no coolant in oil, water pump cover a bit loose, perhaps due to overheating/not enough coolant, weep hole leaking, I will split the engine after I finish this post.
Last overhaul was a major one, valves, piston (std size) cyl. honed, rings, bearings, crank alignment, sprague, freewheel, gaskets.

I will update as I get some results.
 
hey Hannu!!!

it seems to me that it was either the headgasket or the water pu,p seal or the cap of the radiator. eirther way there is no need to strip the engine again!!!!!

regards

taffy
 
Sorry mate, too fast.
Here is some measurements:
comp.ring end gap 0,40mm, piston groove tolerance 0,11mm
oil scraper ring 0,50mm, piston groove tolerance (with spring) less than 0,04mm
Some vertical marks were found in piston skirt and cylinder liner.
Attached some photos (links).

Piston in liner http://www.ssg-shooting.fi/images/hannu ... _liner.jpg
Piston skirt http://www.ssg-shooting.fi/images/hannu ... _skirt.jpg
Cylinder liner http://www.ssg-shooting.fi/images/hannu/cyl_liner.jpg
Piston skirt 2 http://www.ssg-shooting.fi/images/hannu ... kirt_2.jpg

Hopefully the images show

Do you think the piston is byebye and should the cyl. be honed?

Thanks,
 
piston and cylinder look better than my 650, but your ring end gaps are way off. did you measure ring gap at the unworn bottom as well? what is the piston skirt to cyl clearance?
 
Do you mean they are too tight? According to the rep.manual max end gaps are 0,8mm and 1,0mm . Oil ring groove seems too tight, maybe a bit cleaning/scraping would help. I tried to measure the piston skirt to cyl, but my digimeter is not that accurate way of measuring it. I try to get it done tomorrow..
 
measure the pistom skirt to linar with feeler gauges. ring gap is typical. this isn't your coolant problem though is it?

regards

Taffy
 
It's part of the coolant problem. As the coolant disappeared, the engine went hot and started smoking, not water vapor, it smelled oil. That's why the extra take apart -show.
btw my cyl head number is 80036020051, couldn't find it in the manual. Also cam number wasn't the same as in the manual. Is it common?
I'll go and check check piston skirt.
 
sounds about right to me?

check for damage in the ring grooves. i didn't realise you had a problem in this area?

regards

Taffy
 
Cam number is 800 5621 5/2527, if I read it right. Valve springs seem to be ok ~40mm. Exh. ports black and soggy.
Have to buy a magnifying glass...

regards,
 
Hannu said:
Cam number is 800 5621 5/2527, if I read it right. Valve springs seem to be ok ~40mm. Exh. ports black and soggy.
Have to buy a magnifying glass...

regards,
Click to expand...

Hannu, like Ned says you need to measure your ring end gaps on a part of the cylinder that isn't worn below ABDC.
The piston measurement needs to be down the bore to get it's running tolerance.
0.13mm or 0.005 thou in the old scale does seem a bit excessive
The bottom of the skirt and above the compression ring does seem to have wear, this could be due to the piston rocking in the bore.
Take your parts to an engineer and get them measured accurately.

Regards

Sparks.
 
Went to a amchine shop with the parts and checked them.
Piston 99,86mm.
Liner 100,02 and 0,03 to 0,04 oval.
 
.03 is all allowed at the top and middle, .05mm allowed at the bottom yet this is often where the damage is?
i think this is now on the max limit?

be very careful here. perhaps tell us where the linar is oval?

regards

Taffy
 
The damage to your piston rings is not good. A close look at the oil ring shows deformed areas and it also looks like there is a bad spot in the top ring as well. It's hard to see, but it looks like your top ring has wear at the bottom edge only, just like mine. I would not reuse the piston if it has bits of embedded metal in it (could cause damage after reassembly).
 

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