13.5 Volts vs 12.6

I have it on the charger now, I'll let you know, but otherwise 12.8 was not read directly at the battery. I used the ground, not the "-".

It should be enough electricity to crank the starter and restart the bike when it's hot.

I had 13.3 going to 4 after charging the battery.

Conclusion: really not the battery.

LeFrog said:

I am resurrecting an old post here but I think I may have found the explanation about why the YTZ7S in my bike (formerly Bobzilla's) is not working properly although he maintains it was new for the Moab ride.

When I took it home, it had a bit of juice and actually after priming the bike it would start cold on the e-start. Shaggy (aka 2 lungs) and Kenny my son will testify this is true.

Next the battery did not want to know anything. I had the bike on a battery tender I bought just for the berg, as Bob kept telling me that's how he was juicing it.

To the point: did Bob do wrong to not follow the three-step procedure and is the battery "screwed" because of that? Can it still be "saved"? Obviously I need an Optimate, but the battery seems to have something wrong with it...

Click to expand...

yeh. bob did something wrong alright

Taffy

Taffy: it has the right voltage. The starter does not restart. Only when it was juiced by the Optimate. But it will not last. After an hour or so the starter does not operate properly (I know, as a "restarter").

I wonder if either the starter is dead or the electrical is. I will take the time to see into the problem carefully on Saturday.

you've got sand where?

froggy, I believe you missed taffy's point.

You took the time to let the community(including Bob) know that you felt he would be to blame if this were the case, when you could have been much more direct and to the point by saying:

Could the battery be damaged if X happened?

Click to expand...

Instead, you took the time to ask us:

Could the battery be damaged if Bob charged it by method X, causing it to die, and therefore being potentially liable for any charges I may incur?

Click to expand...

It's become a habit of yours on the board as of late to let us know that you hope bob would do the right thing, or bob charged it this way... etc.

In short, if you'd like your stay with the community to be a nice and fruitful one, please drop this, and simply ask your questions and make your statements. You bought a used bike, and there are risks involved with that. Bob doesn't need a reminder on these things, it's not his bike anymore.

thanks,
json

Re: you've got sand where?

schwim said:

It's become a habit of yours on the board as of late to let us know that you hope bob would do the right thing, or bob charged it this way... etc.

Click to expand...

No I said the battery is fine. It's not a charging issue, it's either the starter or the electrical and I'll figure it out. Bob has not screwed it up. Did I say that just before?

I also wrote a lenghty post saying the bike is awesome and Berger took a picture for Bob with me giving the thumb up.

Now I'm not interesting in blaming Bob, I want to fix the one little thing that's nagging me on this great bike.

The whole idea was: can bad charging f... up that type of battery so bad that it's worthless and can it be saved in this case?

Could you get that popcorn eating emoticon from KTM Talk? We'll need it soon.

LeFrog said:

I used the ground, not the "-".

Click to expand...

If there is no current flowing through the ground cable it makes no difference where you measure ground from. If there is lots of current it makes only a tiny difference.

LeFrog said:

... can bad charging f... up that type of battery so bad that it's worthless and can it be saved in this case?

Click to expand...

Yes. Mine ruptured because it was overcharged to buggery! If it is still in one piece it is probably usable.

Did you do them tests mentioned earlier or something similar? What results did you get?

I really not sure if this will be fruitful for this topic... but my brother is an engineer for a large auto company here in the states. One of his assignments this year was to test batteries. This large auto company wanted to save weight on there new cars, they figured smaller batteriers would help?
Through his testing he found the sealed gel batteries had the lowest cold cranking amps and had the least amount of recharged to it? The older batteries that you have to activate with electrolytes had the most cold cranking amps and the highest recharge rate. “Note this conversation was after a hard day of riding and a few cold ones around a camp fire.â€Â

Sorry, Bear, did not have the time yet. Life, you know. I'll do that Saturday in prevision for my Sunday ride. Three things can go wrong: battery, wiring, starter. First one is fine, therefore I'll test the second. Thanks for the help.

i just found a deltran battery tender plus that works i believe the same as the optimate III. those of you in the know could confirm? below is a copy of text from there website. the battery tender plus retails for $60 at cycle gear.



quote
The Battery Tender Plus battery charger delivers 1.25 amperes during bulk charge mode, holds the battery charge voltage constant at 14.4 VDC during absorption charge mode until the battery charge current drops to 0.1 amperes at which time it then automatically switches to a float charge mode. During float charge mode, the output voltage of the Battery Tender Plus battery charger is 13.2 VDC, which is well below the gassing voltage of a lead acid battery. This keeps the battery topped off, while minimizing any detrimental effects to do gassing. The Battery Tender Plus battery charger is able to perform these complex switching functions because its electronic circuitry is controlled by an on board microprocessor.
Although they often appear to be a better economic choice for the typical consumer, trickle chargers do not have the advantage of sophisticated electronic control. Therefore, as they allow the value of charge current to trickle down to what appears to be safe levels, the output voltage of the charger rises well above 15 VDC, sometimes even going higher that 16 VDC depending on the charger type and the battery that is connected to it. Either voltage is well above the gassing voltage of a lead acid battery. If the battery remains connected to this high level of voltage for an extended period of time, even less than 1 day, extreme damage can be done to the battery. What appears to be a cost savings for the charger may actually cost several times the charger price in replacement batteries

Well, I received the Optimate III, unplugged the Battery Tender, which was in "yellow" (or green, I can't tell) meaning full, plugged the "O3" instead and it went into charge and it's been charging for an hour now...

Still does not explain why the starter does not crank with 12+ v in the battery, which I am going to check on Saturday.

LeFrog said:

Well, I received the Optimate III, unplugged the Battery Tender, which was in "yellow" (or green, I can't tell) meaning full, plugged the "O3" instead and it went into charge and it's been charging for an hour now...

Still does not explain why the starter does not crank with 12+ v in the battery, which I am going to check on Saturday.

Click to expand...

lefrog,
is the tender you have (had) a "battery tender" brand by deltran or another brand of tender?

It is a Battery Tender (TM) ... Not a garden variety as an Aussie friend said.

Once the battery was charged per the charger, I disconnected and tried the starter. It gave a much longer crank this time. I think it will be enough to help start the bike cold but I fear that it won't be enough later on on the trail.

I'll do the electrical test from the "hard start guide" tomorrow.

One thing I did not understand in this doc is the difference between "loaded" and "unloaded" ...?

LeFrog said:

... and it's been charging for an hour now....

Click to expand...

Don't be surprised if it went into "charge" mode for a preset time. If you connect a 3 step charger to a full charged battery, it will go through the first step (charge at constant current, volts<~14.2) almost instantly, it will stay in the second step (charge at constant volts ~14.2V) for a preset time inbuilt in the charger. After this time it goes to step 3 (charge at constant volts ~13.2V).