Worn Cam?

2005 FE550. 3rd owner, 358 hours, 13000km, unsure when it was last rebuilt, or ever. I’m getting lots of metal sludge and shavings on my drain plug magnet and I’m trying to track down the source.

The plug in the picture is after 1.8 hours (fresh oil) and there’s quite a bit of stuff on it. The largest chunk was 2.5-3mm long and was super thin, so it didn’t seem like it came from a blunt force trauma.



I inspected the top end and the follower bearings seemed OK. They turned freely and I couldn’t feel any radial play (by hand).
CFBs:


The cam looked OK to the eye, but the close-up photos are actually showing a lot more pitting and wear than I noticed in person. Still, nothing as bad as other examples of “cam failure” that I’ve seen. The profile was still intact and looked OK at arms length.

Does the cam (especially the intake) look worn enough to cause metal sludge and shavings in the oil? OR should I start looking further down into the engine? (I know, if the cam is really worn, the bottom end likely will be too)

Intake:


Exhaust:


Thanks

There's surely more qualified people than me on this forum and they'll probably chime in at some point but to me this cam should be replaced because the top - hardened surface is worn. From this point to a total cam failure there are only a couple of hours of riding, maybe not even that much.

Also, I don't think that the cam is the cause of that much metal shavings on the plug.

M.

Oil on the magnetic plug looks like efter 18h not 1,8h.
What oil do you use?

your shim may well be off the starter clutch so if you are getting a whizzing noise when you press the button then this is more likely it.

if not , it will be a crank shim.

the cam can be cleaned by an engineer AND no lose of performance as they do a base grind as well. when you fit it again make every effort to push the cam to the back for more load bearing area. the CFB should be changed at the same time as the cam is changed/done.

Taffy

hacker33 said:

Oil on the magnetic plug looks like efter 18h not 1,8h.
What oil do you use?

Click to expand...

I was using Motul 5100 and this is with Bel Ray EXS. I'm not prepared to blame the oil as I'm sure there are other factors at play.

Something else worth mentioning (although embarrasing) is I drowned the bike in a puddle in the fall. The water was not clean and got into the oil. I flushed throughly with at least 4 oil changes (cheap oil) so I was satisfied that the engine was clean, but I could be wrong about that. I rode it once more after that (new oil, 2 hours, similar metal sludge on magent), changed the oil/filter and this is the latest after 1.8Hr.

Taffy said:

your shim may well be off the starter clutch so if you are getting a whizzing noise when you press the button then this is more likely it.

if not , it will be a crank shim.

the cam can be cleaned by an engineer AND no lose of performance as they do a base grind as well. when you fit it again make every effort to push the cam to the back for more load bearing area. the CFB should be changed at the same time as the cam is changed/done.

Taffy

Click to expand...

I'll pull the side cover tonight and see what I can find behind the starter gear.

Taffy, when you are talking about the crank shim, is that the same as the thrust washer? They are only $1 so it will be a cheap fix! (I kidd...)

Do they need to harden the cam after removing material?

Thanks

KentJ said:

I was using Motul 5100 and this is with Bel Ray EXS. I'm not prepared to blame the oil as I'm sure there are other factors at play.

Something else worth mentioning (although embarrasing) is I drowned the bike in a puddle in the fall. The water was not clean and got into the oil. I flushed throughly with at least 4 oil changes (cheap oil) so I was satisfied that the engine was clean, but I could be wrong about that. I rode it once more after that (new oil, 2 hours, similar metal sludge on magent), changed the oil/filter and this is the latest after 1.8Hr.

Click to expand...

From an engineering standpoint, the water in the oil would have no effect on the pittng / loss of carburization. This might cause parts to become rusty if the bike sits for a long while, but the heat of the oil should cause any water to become vapour and escape through the crankcase vent. I suppose if the water vapour settled in the head, and the bike sat, then the water could cause the cams to ozidize (casuing pitting eventually), but I find that hard to believe since all parts should have at least a film of oil.

jmscrttndn said:

From an engineering standpoint, the water in the oil would have no effect on the pittng / loss of carburization. This might cause parts to become rusty if the bike sits for a long while, but the heat of the oil should cause any water to become vapour and escape through the crankcase vent. I suppose if the water vapour settled in the head, and the bike sat, then the water could cause the cams to ozidize (casuing pitting eventually), but I find that hard to believe since all parts should have at least a film of oil.

Click to expand...

The water part was OK I think. BUT, it was muddy water...

KentJ said:

I'll pull the side cover tonight and see what I can find behind the starter gear.

Taffy, when you are talking about the crank shim, is that the same as the thrust washer? They are only $1 so it will be a cheap fix! (I kidd...)

Do they need to harden the cam after removing material?

Thanks

Click to expand...

phew!
1) well if it is not behind the starter gear it means nothing because you don't know whether there were any shims there before you even started!

that is why i asked about pressing the button! if you lose a shim it will defo whizzz all the time.

3) no, if you did, I would have said. in all honesty there are enough used cams out there not to have to worry about a repair. short as it is long I reckon.

regards

Taffy

FWIW a new cam is currently $130 US from munn

bushmechanic said:

FWIW a new cam is currently $130 US from munn

Click to expand...

How long ago was that they show $164 now unless I'm looking at the wrong part # ?

PEI Mudder said:

How long ago was that they show $164 now unless I'm looking at the wrong part # ?

Click to expand...

I'm seeing $173 USD on Munn (#80036010000). The parts I've bought locally ended up being close to the US fiche prices (in CAD of course), so I think I'll just order them locally and not worry about shipping etc.

I contacted the 2 cam grinders in my area and they hadn't heard of a Husaberg, so they obviously didn't have profiles made for my cam. The cost to have the masters made would have been as much as or more than a new cam. The local MC machine shop I contacted (reputable place) told me to contact Web Camshafts in California, but for the cost of a new OEM cam, it's not worth it.

I'll be putting in an order for a new cam and bearings, but knowing that's not the source of my problems I'll keep looking.

-Kent

OK, I found some ugly bits under the side cover. I'm not sure if it's the source of the metal sludge and flakes, but it can't be helping.

After I replaced the water pump seal in the fall I had to F&#% around with the kick starter. It popped out at least once when I was fitting the cover. I read on here that shimming out the sledge with some small washers will help keep the sledge in place (which it did) but it seems that the kick start gear was dragging on the sledge a little. Shame I didn't notice it when I was assembling it last time (at midnight on a weeknight...)

The needle bearing supporting the kick starter gear seems a little worn as the gear feels loose on the shaft. It's not terrible, but there is more radial play compared the other idlers so maybe that could cause it to rub a little more.



The shaft has obviously been hitting the sledge incorrectly:

And


I can't recall if it was like that before or if the damage is new. It might account for some of the flakes, but I'm reluctant to think I've solved it. There are also tiny non-magnetic flakes in the oil that wouldn't be accounted for by this.

I think I should button back up and ride it to see. I hardly use the kick start anyways...

Sign up to KTMtalk.com... register with a non-free email address if possible (speeds up process). Once there, you can get a 25% discount from Munn. It beats the Cdn dealer pricing. Trust me, I am shopping for $1000+ worth of parts and Munn is the way to go.

If you are only buying an item or two, then go local, otherwise go to the Muricans.

they do a sale every 6-8 wks

current sale has been on for over a week

Part Number: 80036010000
Description: CAMSHAFT 450/501/550 03
450/550
Retail: $173.03
Your Price: $129.77 (Daylight Savings Discount 25% discount)

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Damn, Ima get me some of that. 25% off OEM parts is a great deal. Is 25% off a typical sale?

Knowing me I'll have everything lined up and the sale will be over by the time I go to buy...

I think I should bite the bullet and split the cases to see what's going on. It's not toast yet but I don't have a lot of confidence in this old bike with the amount of metal paste floating in the oil. I ran the bike for 5 minutes and the magnet was covered again (no chunks though). That must be hard as hell on the bearings and rings etc.

Is there a rebuild parts list kicking around? It would be good get an idea of the parts needed and costs before tearing it down.

how about a used cam fella? I have 6 of them.....
sledge mod
I even have a used kickstart shaft.

regards

Taffy

I'll post my list in a bit. It's roughly $225 without any major parts... add crank bearings (Orangeberg), jet kit (taffy), balancer or balancer bearings, etc.

KentJ said:

Damn, Ima get me some of that. 25% off OEM parts is a great deal. Is 25% off a typical sale?

Knowing me I'll have everything lined up and the sale will be over by the time I go to buy...

I think I should bite the bullet and split the cases to see what's going on. It's not toast yet but I don't have a lot of confidence in this old bike with the amount of metal paste floating in the oil. I ran the bike for 5 minutes and the magnet was covered again (no chunks though). That must be hard as hell on the bearings and rings etc.

Is there a rebuild parts list kicking around? It would be good get an idea of the parts needed and costs before tearing it down.

Click to expand...

http://www.filedropper.com/husabergparts

Here's my file. If your computer doesn't download it, PM me and I will send some other way.

Note: I didn't spend a lot of time looking at replacing bearings or seals in the transmission. This will get you started. Ignore the stuff at the top; concentrate on the part numbers and descriptions.

I simply googled free file sharing site, so let me know if anything is fishy with the link provided and I will pull it off the post. I did a test download and it seems fine.

Taffy said:

how about a used cam fella? I have 6 of them.....
sledge mod
I even have a used kickstart shaft.

regards

Taffy

Click to expand...

How much for a used cam (PM me if you want)? Couldn't find those on your site . Keep in mind it's $1.9 CAD per GBP these days...

Big question, Did you run the bike after you swamped it?

If yes,

If not aware?

The water in your oil can and will cause all kinds of havoc. Oil and water do not mix even under extreme movement. Yes a little water will evaporate but allot of water will wash oil from all moving parts and create lots off heat and pre mature wear on everything. The water will become the lubricant and the oil will be useless. When the engine is running the oil will sit on top allowing the water to pump, this will never allow any oil to reach any of the moving parts, then heat and meltdown.

By looking at the cam it is pooched for sure. It however will still work as per profile but it is far, far from being how it should. The cam looks as if lubricant was missing or foreign objects flowed through the oil and ground it? the journals look as if they were very hot with the bluish coloration by the pictures?? Hard to tell without looking in person. The pitting will cause extensive wear on other parts just as sandpaper does. The cam lobe surface must be machined and polished smooth and maintained by way of lubrication for optimal reliability and durability.

I am sure you are aware of all this but did notice that no mention was made about the bike running after swamping. I think Taffy has hit the nail on the head with the starter clutch shim. Do tell when you find the failed part