Where have I heard this before ?

Mitchie · Sep 22, 2004

Guys in my last post my 650 would not start after much messing around I managed to get it going again. It has done very little since, it started reasonably well for a couple of week ends and now we are back to the non-starting again.

I can't understand why a company cannot produce a motorcycle that starts easily, everyone else seems to manage. Its such a blow as once its going its the best !

Please give me your ideas to help out, it is winding over no problem the valve clearances are good, there is a good spark. But it won't start kicking or e-start with or with out choke. I have changed nothing since it was starting (it was starting but it still took a bit of work kicking it from cold but once hot on the button was fine) if I take of the air filter and turn it over on the button and give it a quick squirt of carb cleaner it fires straigh away. Once hot its fairly easy to start. It bangs quite a bit on the over run with a DOMA system on it but has always done that (the joints are sealed).

I am thinking a carb problem does anyone have any ideas, I would have no problem taking it to a shop but where I live its probably a 1000k round trip to someone who knows what they are talking about.

As always any help is greatly appreciated.

Cheers.............

Simon · Sep 22, 2004

Mitchie,

When it was running last, what sort of idle speed did you have? Having a too low idle speed can cause serious starting difficulties.

You definitely haven't had any of the engine apart where cam timing could be altered have you?

Next is to really check the carb. Whip it out and give it a good clean out with an airline, checking needle and jet condition, swapping out if necessary. Of course, also double check float height. You may have done this already......

Before double/triple checking the valves with a feeler guage, whip the clutch cover off and check the slack on the cam chain. If there is slack in the chain extending the tensioner is the next thing to do. If the chain touches the casing you need to check cam chain length and both the upper and lower timing gears - we had huge slack caused by a worn out lower timing gear.

If these things still don't yield any results then I would check the head gasket - my 01 650 once behaved very strangely (as in would start one day, not the next, would start immediately after switching off but not a few minutes after etc.). We were really scratching our heads until we whipped the head off and found a small leak between the cylinder and cooling system. Obviously what had been happening was coolant was seeping in to the cylinder after parking up then preventing firing - it was a tiny amount.

Unfortunately not a silver bullet, but hopefully this should give you a starting point on where to look.

Simon

berger · Sep 22, 2004

Are you running a stock cam? Make sure your decompression adjustments are spot on. Make sure the arm for the decompression device is returned completely and not sticking partially open. These seem to be my main cause of hard start.

hribman · Sep 22, 2004

Hi,

I canÃ‚Â´t believe your bike behaves such a kind of sensitive.
If it runs before you should be able to activate the engine again.
Sometimes a berg has some unusual manners. Maybe you have to pull the choke, kick for 2 times, then choke in and kick again.
First, please tell me, which model it is, which carb you got and which
settings. With these references for me itÃ‚Â´s easier to make
some suggestions.
But first, be sure that all the points are ok Simon mentioned. Your carb
and your stator cover should be clean, and water is not allowed to be in there.

best reagards

hribman

ajt · Sep 22, 2004

Mitchie, I would have to disagree with you. When properly set-up bergs start very easily. I have a just gotten a 02 650fe. I know the origional owner when he bought it, it started just fine. He rode it for quite some time and it started getting hard to start. I adjusted the valves - presto is starting. He rode it quite abit more, started getting hard to start. I tried the valves again. This time it didn't work the decompression release was worn out. New decopression system and viola easy starting, and I got a smokin deal on a awesome berg. I guess my point is that berg are easy to start (in my limited experience with them) when everything is right, it is just keeping everything right that is the problem. :?

husabutt · Sep 22, 2004

Mitchie:

I think you are correct in your assumption that a fuel problem of sorts exists. What is the variable though. Has the weather changed much. What is the air temperature? Its harder to get fuel to vaporize when its colder. Where do you purchase gas. Do they sell in volume and get a new supply often. Has the blend been changed to a winter or summer blend? Are they adding alcohol to the blend? Are you running race or avgas? How about octane bosters?

dsducati · Sep 23, 2004

I have to agree with ajt that bergs start easy when set up right. Mine get hard to start and it is usually a matter of tight intake valves or a sooted up old spark plug. Sounds like you have checked these obvious things though. Since giving it a shot of starting fluid tends to pop it off, the problem seems to be carb related. Is there water in the float bowl, or a plugged up starter jet? Could also have a plugged pilot and you have the idle screw turned up so it will pull fuel past the needle and run. With the slide open a bunch they won't start cold at all. Finally, check for an air intake leak. The bike will also start easier with a 45 pilot rather than the stock 35.

Dan

Mitchie · Sep 24, 2004

Thanks for the info guys racing this week end so after that will strip the carb again and get some jets then start working on it one thing at a time hopefully this will resolve the matter will report back.

Cheers.............

mikst · Sep 29, 2004

To high idle speed is not good either. Last winter I had serious problem to start my 501 -02. It was something like 25 kicks and a lot of choke and no choke. Less idle speed cured that.

When I got my new stator in May it was even easier to start the bike. First or second kick cold, first kick warm.

belgianhusa · Oct 2, 2004

I had some startproblems recently on my FSE650 02.
After valvecheck is wasn't better. So we had to look elsewhere.
We adjusted the jets in the carb (original Del'orto)
we changed the mainjet to 190 from 180 (haven't changed that when I place FP-exhaust) and another form 35 to 38(normally should be around 40).
after a bit of shoke (halfopen, like usual) and a simple klick on the e-button is coldstarted immediately...
so me so happy know...it always started like that but suddenly not anymore (weather changed here I asume)

dougn1 · Oct 2, 2004

i'll bet 90 percent of these "hard to start after sitting some time" problems are due to the stuck float valve. the symptoms are...the bike is starting fine then for no reason it won't start when cold....so everyone starts cleaning the carb!

CHECK THE FLOAT VALVE!!!

I have a 96 and an 02 and they both do it!

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Where have I heard this before ?

Mitchie

Simon

berger

hribman

ajt

husabutt

dsducati

Mitchie

mikst

belgianhusa

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