Water Pump Leaks - Sump oil Level

Crankcase has a breather that goes to the frame/air filter housing. Crankcase pressure should be nil. or are you referring to oil pressure?

steve said:

G'day jzfe,

Crankcase pressure. I expect that there will always be some down in the bowels of the engine even with the breather, and sizing of breathers can be an issue AFAIK. If oil levels are overfilled, then it will pump out a breather, and it'll only do that if there is pressure to drive it.

Steve

Click to expand...

for security we run the oil halfway up the glass because they dont hold much oil to start with and when the engine is in motion and the oil is spread throughout it i suppose you have less volume to pick up from,
pop a good 1km wheelie and you may run it dry.

As far as leaking cases we have until recently used the grey threebond in the workshop as per factory specs,but after a problem on CAFEY18 s 640 adventure rocker cover continuously leaking we swithched to the black threebond. CAFEY18 done the homework on this and it actually seals better if you have a mismatch or poor sealing case and can seal bigger gaps and take more pressure.
I block one breather off on my 650 the small rear one from the rocker cover to stop oil throwing up into airbox and run half way up sightglass without any crankcase pressure problems yet.
However we did run lower oil levels once to stop the weephole problem but it didnt help, i then went on to stop it with the KURTZ carrier fix.
ORANGEBERG just my thoughts.

Important point to note here. ORANGEBERG runs his bike "full noise" in competitions. Simple deduction would suggest that if what he is doing to his bike works under race conditions, then us trail riders should have no problems at all if we chose to adopt his advice !!!!
I am not a fan of the reduced oil level method of cure. I believe it could lead to other problems associated with contamination, heat and as stated above, running dry. I am actually looking at fitting an oil cooler or remote reservoir to increase oil capacity. This should help to extend oil change intervals on adventure type rides. I try to think more along the lines of solving the problems, rather than just treating the symptoms.
Just my thoughts on it all.

Cheers
Garry.

cafey18 said:

Important point to note here. ORANGEBERG runs his bike "full noise" in competitions. Simple deduction would suggest that if what he is doing to his bike works under race conditions, then us trail riders should have no problems at all if we chose to adopt his advice !!!!
I am not a fan of the reduced oil level method of cure. I believe it could lead to other problems associated with contamination, heat and as stated above, running dry. I am actually looking at fitting an oil cooler or remote reservoir to increase oil capacity. This should help to extend oil change intervals on adventure type rides. I try to think more along the lines of solving the problems, rather than just treating the symptoms.
Just my thoughts on it all.

Cheers
Garry.

Click to expand...

do this small calculation 1 litre of oil will bring the oil level halfway up the sightgalss
if you run 800ml to get it below the sightglass and then race a non stop 240km crosscountry desert race at 170kmh my bike will burn approx 150-200ml
if you dont run our Kurtz carrier weephole mod you will loose another 100ml over that distance
that leaves 500ml for your engine to run on at sustained high revs for the last quarter of the race ( im not guessing at these figures it happened to me at the Finke desert race in 2006 ).
whilst the engine will run on 500ml of oil it cant be good for it.
ORANGEBERG

cafey18 said:

I am actually looking at fitting an oil cooler or remote reservoir to increase oil capacity. This should help to extend oil change intervals on adventure type rides.

Click to expand...

Cafey, I have fitted a Joe Racer cooler set up to my Safari 650. While its not a bad bit gear and it does add about 700ml, it is expensive for what it is !!. So I now have 1.7L total oil capacity in the system.

For my Safari Berg for next years Safari, a fresh '08 FE650 (assuming all goes ok this year and I am still in with my plan to run next year as well) I am going to fabricate a remote reservior of around 1 to 1.5 L capacity. This will fit under the seat where the HB extra fuel tank usually fits. The reservior will have the standard long filter paper element built into it. The guy who is going to do it for me is a very good mechanic, he has worked as a mechanic on the KTM Safari race team with Andy Caldecott & the Race Motorcyles guys from the NT, so he knows rallye bikes, Husabergs and the issues invloved.

So I believe we can make up a very good cooler/remote reservoir and improve on the Joe Racer one. We will start building the '08 bike once it arrives late this year so will keep you posted.

hi guys,

regarding the oil-cooler issue -
take a look at pic number 2:
http://www.frauenschuh-tuning.at/motort ... racing.php :idea:

as this hp is german, hope the pics speaks for itself, or?
Adapter does fit on any KTM/Husaberg (same filter), just buy braided steel-lines in requested lenght and mount the cooler
of your choice to the place you want it

BTW: Company owner is one of the inventors of the LC4 Engine, was working for KTM until he decided to open up his
own company.
His stuff works usually very well, but prices are NOT moderate

But, I can´t believe this figures for his "Diabolo-LC4" engine
http://www.frauenschuh-tuning.at/leistu ... n_home.php

Good stuff Gazza. I look forward to seeing your setup, it sounds good. Make sure you post plenty of pics mate
Yeh I have looked at the Joe Racer cooler set up, and I think I can make something up myself. You might end up with a marketable item if your remote reservoir is the goods !!!

Cheers
Garry.

Gokai134 said:

hi guys,

regarding the oil-cooler issue -
take a look at pic number 2:
http://www.frauenschuh-tuning.at/motort ... racing.php :idea:

as this hp is german, hope the pics speaks for itself, or?
Adapter does fit on any KTM/Husaberg (same filter), just buy braided steel-lines in requested lenght and mount the cooler
of your choice to the place you want it

BTW: Company owner is one of the inventors of the LC4 Engine, was working for KTM until he decided to open up his
own company.
His stuff works usually very well, but prices are NOT moderate

But, I can´t believe this figures for his "Diabolo-LC4" engine
http://www.frauenschuh-tuning.at/leistu ... n_home.php

Click to expand...

Thanks Gokia134, very nice little covers, and there Berg blue !!! It wouldn't be hard to rig something up with those adapters.

Cheers
Garry.

external oil line end caps

The only problem with the German KTM ones is it wont accomodate the oil galleries in the Berg end cap, but using the Joe Racer Berg end cap with other coolers and reserviors is easy.

RE: external oil line end caps

Gazza,

sorry, but I can´t get your point?
Aren´t both companies offer oil-filter covers with "holes"?
The only difference I see is that JoeRacer has 2 "holes",
Frauenschuh has only one "hole"?

Beside, the mounting position and look of the JoeRacer-thing - sorry,
but I can´t fit this on my Berg. Never ever! Not in this life...

Ok, now 2 more things:
First: Frauenschuh is an Austrian Company, not German :thumb:

Second:
I don´t understand the necessarity of an additional oil-filter?
I´d be afraid of loosing oil-pressure because of risking an engine-failure because of the filter?
Have you measured the oil-pressure in your cooler-kit?

Re: RE: external oil line end caps

Gokai134 said:

Gazza,

sorry, but I can´t get your point?
Aren´t both companies offer oil-filter covers with "holes"?
The only difference I see is that JoeRacer has 2 "holes",
Frauenschuh has only one "hole"?

the necessarity of an additional oil-filter?
I´d be afraid of loosing oil-pressure because of risking an engine-failure because of the filter?
Have you measured the oil-pressure in your cooler-kit?

Click to expand...

ok the KTM and the Husaberg end caps are NOT the same. The KTM is just a blank end cap that stops the oil and filter from falling out.

The Husaberg one is thicker and actuallly has oil lines in it, if you try to use a KTM one you WILL HAVE NO OIL circulating past your oil filter or to the rest of your motor for that matter !!!

The same goes for the Joe Racer Berg one vs the AU KTM one !! One has oil lines/gallerys in the end cap it self and the other dosent.

There is no drop in oil pressure as the volume/rate of oil past the oil pump then on to the bearings etc is the same, the remote reservoir acts as a larger sump thats all

RE: Re: RE: external oil line end caps

Gazza,

And I really thought it´s the same cover :shock:
looks like you´re right 8) - just by taking look at the Owner Manual...
over the weekend I´ll check on my Fe550 just to be 100% sure you´re right :wink:

Regarding the oil-pressure:
a pressure drop will be there. Depending on diameter & lenght it will appear. If the "new system" is
calculated correct, affect will be almost zero. A minimum drop, but it is there.
As long as the oil is free-flowing everything is fine; I´m afraid that by adding an filter and additional
oilquantity people will change the oil/filter less often - and I won´t image what will happen next...

Resume: Oil-cooler? Yes, but please without the possibilty of blocking the lines