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Valve Adjustment and DTC +video

M

matikrimerman

Joined Jan 2009
119 Posts | 1+
Dallas, TX
So after reading a bazillion of threads, I'm still not sure about the hole process.

First - where do I stick the gague? here is what I have understood, tell me if I'm wrong.

valve_gap.jpg



2.I want to make sure I got this DTC right. the explanation I (think) I understood best was by Taffi on this thread: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5381. I made a video of finding the DTC (at least thinking I did), can you check it out and tell me if I'm right or wrong.
[youtube:2m1ibsko]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ86aFw4tnc[/youtube:2m1ibsko]

Thanks alot, and I hope this helps the next guy
 
Looks fine to me.

I like to use a plastic drinking straw rather than a screwdriver as it is potentially less damaging.

Now we can re-debate the 1/6 - 1/8 turns method vs using feeler gauges. I like 1/6 turn.

Well done.
Steve
 
Thanks Steve.

I take it that the location to put the gauge in is also correct?

If I understood correctly, in order to do the 1/6 of a turn method, I need to:
1.Turn the screw until it is tight(just a bit, not to use force)
2.Move the nut so that one of it's corners is aligned with the screw
3.Turn the screw so that it is aligned with the NEXT nut's corner (1/6 of a turn)
4.Tighten the nut while been careful not to turn the screw

How far off am I?

If this is right I'll try and make another video later on today of the entire process and hopefully, if it's good, we'll have something for the next people in line fighting to understand how to adjust the valves, like I was..

Thanks again
 
matikrimerman said:
Thanks Steve.

I take it that the location to put the gauge in is also correct?

If I understood correctly, in order to do the 1/6 of a turn method, I need to:
1.Turn the screw until it is tight(just a bit, not to use force)
2.Move the nut so that one of it's corners is aligned with the screw
3.Turn the screw so that it is aligned with the NEXT nut's corner (1/6 of a turn)
4.Tighten the nut while been careful not to turn the screw

How far off am I?

If this is right I'll try and make another video later on today of the entire process and hopefully, if it's good, we'll have something for the next people in line fighting to understand how to adjust the valves, like I was..

Thanks again
Click to expand...


Thats exactly how i do them, easy peasy, although i find 4. is the trickest part.
Ive done mine about 4 times now and im down to about half an hour.

Bye the way, your methods of questioning followed up with pics and vids are class.
look forward to the finished vid.
 
Need Help: Valve Adjustment and DTC +video

Thanks Philis, I have to make the video and pictures since I can't really describe what I'm seen (a bad mix of having very little mechanical knowledge and bad english).

I'm still waiting on the gauge to complete this task but I have 2 more questions:

1. just to make sure - at DTC I adjust ALL 4 valves, right?

2. A friend told me that way back on Ktm-Talk, they gave the following method, and I was curious to hear what you have to say about it. it is true for the 03 RFS engines but I don't think it should change any thing:

here it is:

turn the engine over and when the inlet valves are all the way down (open) adjust the exhaust valves and the other way around - when the exhaust valves are all the way down (open) adjust the intake valves.

I know it sound too easy to be true, but is it?
 
Re: Need Help: Valve Adjustment and DTC +video

matikrimerman said:
Thanks Philis, I have to make the video and pictures since I can't really describe what I'm seen (a bad mix of having very little mechanical knowledge and bad english).

I'm still waiting on the gauge to complete this task but I have 2 more questions:

1. just to make sure - at DTC I adjust ALL 4 valves, right?

2. A friend told me that way back on Ktm-Talk, they gave the following method, and I was curious to hear what you have to say about it. it is true for the 03 RFS engines but I don't think it should change any thing:

here it is:

turn the engine over and when the inlet valves are all the way down (open) adjust the exhaust valves and the other way around - when the exhaust valves are all the way down (open) adjust the intake valves.

I know it sound too easy to be true, but is it?
Click to expand...

At TDC, or DTC, do all 4 valves.

The method described is how I did my 501, but it got me into trouble, ie too tight, on my 650 for some reason that I fail to understand, but I think related to the decompressor, so I do it at TDC now without issues.

Attached is a pic of the tools I use. The allen key is cut up, use the bent bit to initially loosen and finally tighten the valve covers. Use the ball end part to spin the screws in and out when loose. The 10 mm ring spanner is a 10/11 mm one cut into 2. The flat blade screw driver is a bit from a jewelers multi bit kit with a bit of rubber forced over it so I can't lose it inside.

[attachment=0:1xvgf6rb]ValveTools (Small).JPG[/attachment:1xvgf6rb]

Steve
 

Attachments

  • ValveTools (Small).JPG
    ValveTools (Small).JPG
    20 KB
Wow, thanks for the tips, Steve. Using a feeler gage makes valve adjustment a real pain, this way should be much better!

And the idea of dropping the small screwdriver in was definitely on my mind, I switched to one with a larger plastic handle.
 
I'm sorry but I wan't be able to make that complete video after all. my camera is not good enough to film macro, and every thing comes out out of focus.
I did however, found out that my problem was that I couldn't understand where to stick my gauge in, and that was because the valve was too tight and the gauge just couldn't go into the gap - I unscrewed the valve a little bit and then it was very easy to feel where the gauge should go. I have some pictures in the office so I'll attach them later.

The 1/6 of a turn method didn't work very good for me - I started with that but I seem to overtightened it. I was confused about how much to tight the bolt before I give it 1/6 of a turn back. with the gauge it was much easier - just unscrew enough to let the gauge enter, then tighten it but make sure you can still pull the gauge out and that's it.

aardvark: to save this for future reference, you can either bookmark this thread or subscribe. you'll find both options if you'll scroll the page all the way down.
 
O.K, to finish what I've started (hopefully) here are another 3 pictures and a video to help the next in line.

P1020493.jpg


Inlet valve

P1020494.jpg


exhaust valve

P1020497.jpg


video
[youtube:1jq64qe8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpJYW9vA908[/youtube:1jq64qe8]
 
OK, so here's some random thoughts... It's funny, but I find that when I try to do the 1/6 method, I can never get the .12 feeler in there afterward. It seems to take another 1/6 of a turn before it seems about right. I have to chalk that up to being hard to get a good angle on the feeler because 1/6 should be dead-on... I have normal automotive feelers by the way. I am going to pick up the Motion Pro guage with the hard stem and the "feeler tip" and I bet that will cure the problem.
 
bmxr said:
OK, so here's some random thoughts... It's funny, but I find that when I try to do the 1/6 method, I can never get the .12 feeler in there afterward. It seems to take another 1/6 of a turn before it seems about right. I have to chalk that up to being hard to get a good angle on the feeler because 1/6 should be dead-on... I have normal automotive feelers by the way. I am going to pick up the Motion Pro guage with the hard stem and the "feeler tip" and I bet that will cure the problem.
Click to expand...

you can get domed valve stems and cupped tappet pads and that will explain all that.

its a lot easier for feeler gauges now. anyone with a pre-2005 (or whatever) had a bridge down the middle of the inspection area. so 1/6th was the way to go. however, its about being a competent mechanic as well as being good at on and not the other.

TDC on the early bikes (up to 2004)is when an imaginary line 5mm to the right of the two on the flywheel is in line with the top ignition cover screw hole.

2004+ and TDC is when the leading edge of the ignition staple is in line with a line from the centre of the crank to the lower edge of the trailing ignition cover screw hole. also known as "9 'o clock".

mucking about with doing the tappets in anything but TDC is lethal. why? because the exhaust has a huge bump on it called the 'auto decompressor'. start adjusting your tappets on a 1mm bump and you're going to make a right old mess of them!

hope this all helps

regards

Taffy
 
I'm with BMXR, it takes at least two flats before I can get the gage in.

I don't see how mine could be worn domed, the bike only has 15 hours on it.

I'd rather have them a little too loose than too tight.

Question: If the decomp was interfering during adjustment, then you'd end up with way too much clearance, correct? It's mashing down on the rocker to open the valve, so you'd back the adjustment off to get clearance.

While I had the radiator and everything off to do repairs, I went ahead and checked the valves, they seemed a tiny bit off. Now everything's together and I can't get it to start.

As soon as I let off the decomp lever, it won't crank past the compression stroke. I didn't change the valves that much, and if anything, they're a tad loose (used feeler gage).

I may have just ruined the battery, I ran it pretty flat quite a few times a couple weekends ago.
 
OK, battery cable not quite tight, fixed that, jumper cables attached, same thing. Something wrong.

Seat off, sideplates off, tank off, drain radiator, radiator off, skid plate off, stator cover off, compression release cable off, spark plug out, nylon rod in the hole, set to absolute perfect TDC @ compression.

I don't know what I was doing before, but this time, 1 flat or 1/7 turn was perfect.

Adjusted all 4, re-assembled, choke, starter, it bumps right off and starts, runs great.

I'm glad it's running. I wish I understood this.
 
TDC is when the leading edge of the staple is at 9 'o clock and crosses an imaginary line between the centre of the crank and the lower edge of the ignition cover bolt hole at 9 'o clock.

that's when to do the tappets. 1/6 of a turn and no more or less.

remember sloppy tappets only stop the decomp from working.

regards

Taffy
 
Valve adjustment

Hi bergers so I just got a berg fe650 and I want to check the valves as the last owner did little or no maintainence.
I removed all the items and valve covers and rotated the engine to tdc with a straw so the piston is at the top and it at the rocking point also there was a sharpie line on the rotor which matched.
So the question is when I crack open the nut I expected some slack on the screw buts it's tight and would need at least one turn out to get clearance.
The bike starts and runs so it may be close. My question is am I safe opening all the screws and tight down to the touch and then use the one hex unscrew per the thread.
 

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