Thoughts on making the SEM stator an oil bath.

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PowerFiend

Joined Mar 2004

363 Posts | 1+

USA

Discussion Starter
• Oct 13, 2004

• #1

Anyone considered making the SEM stator oil bath? Did KTM's have the same issues with their SEM ignitions that were oil bathed as the Berg's are having?

I'm just pondering the idea of converting the Berg over to an oil bath design. Anyone care to share their ideas/experiences?

 

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mikst

Joined Sep 2002

323 Posts | 3+

Sweden

• Oct 14, 2004

• #2

I was thinking about this today too. Husaberg told me that KTM only have the oil bath today due to they want to cool the oil???

 

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hribman

Joined May 2004

304 Posts | 0+

Germany

• Oct 14, 2004

• #3

Hi,

KTM uses the oil bath with the Kokusan ignition.
An oil bath for the SEM ignition wouldn´t have a positive effect.
I think the stator will fail even though again.

greetings

hribman

 

LINEAWEAVER

Joined Jul 2001

3K Posts | 1+

El Sobrante, Ca. 94803

• Oct 15, 2004

• #4

You are more likely to increase stator operating temperature via an oil bath.

Dale

 

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ypvs

Joined Jan 2004

115 Posts | 0+

belgium

• Oct 15, 2004

• #5

I've seen a few guys drilling 2 holes in the generator cover and then installed hooses to said holes of wich one was connected to the "airbox" and one just ending high under the frame. We used a similar system on our EC/WC bikes a few years back after repeated failures.

This sucks some fresh air through the generator and keep it cool. Works fine and it's just to plug it if it's cold or if you think that rainwater will get in.

Daniel

 

Splat

Joined Dec 2003

587 Posts | 2+

Where ever we park the motorhome, USA

• Oct 15, 2004

• #6

PowerFiend said:

Anyone considered making the SEM stator oil bath? Did KTM's have the same issues with their SEM ignitions that were oil bathed as the Berg's are having?

I'm just pondering the idea of converting the Berg over to an oil bath design. Anyone care to share their ideas/experiences?

Click to expand...

Are you thinking of drilling holes and sharing the engine oil?

Or are you thinking of just adding oil and keeping it separate from the engine sump oil?

The first idea would as Dale said, increase temps and introduce some dirt (clutch shavings) in the stator. Bad Idea.

Second option would be viable. Are you thinking the oil will minimize vibrations and the resulting damage and stator failure? i don't think the separate oil bath would adversely affect temps much, if you use a thin oil. A more viscous oil will have a high friction coefficient and will generate heat.

If I had a history of stator failures on my bike, I would try the separate oil bath with a 0w20 synthetic engine oil.

 

LINEAWEAVER

Joined Jul 2001

3K Posts | 1+

El Sobrante, Ca. 94803

• Oct 15, 2004

• #7

A very good suggestion indeed Splat as automotive ignition coils often rely on an oil bath for both cooling and vibration damping.

kind Regards,
Dale

 

P

PowerFiend

Joined Mar 2004

363 Posts | 1+

USA

Discussion Starter
• Oct 18, 2004

• #8

Splat said:

Are you thinking of drilling holes and sharing the engine oil?

Or are you thinking of just adding oil and keeping it separate from the engine sump oil?

Click to expand...

I was looking for feedback on both. ie. Pros/cons.

Splat said:

Second option would be viable. Are you thinking the oil will minimize vibrations and the resulting damage and stator failure? i don't think the separate oil bath would adversely affect temps much, if you use a thin oil. A more viscous oil will have a high friction coefficient and will generate heat.

If I had a history of stator failures on my bike, I would try the separate oil bath with a 0w20 synthetic engine oil.

Click to expand...

This is great feedback. The oil would also minimize/eliminate the condensation rust problems.

 

H

hribman

Joined May 2004

304 Posts | 0+

Germany

• Oct 18, 2004

• #9

Hi Splat,

that´s a really good statement. I didn´t think about the damping
effect of the oil before. Could be that this the key. A friend of mine asked
me a year ago what I think about putting oil into the stator cover,
but we realized that it had nothing to do with moisture. So we didn´t
modify the cover.

Maybe I try it again with SEM. I have seen a stator on ebay (Germany),
maybe I get it. At least I´ll get back the original condition of my bike.
That wouldn´t be that bad.
But if the stator fails again I´ll send it to hell. :angry: :devil: :moon:

greetings

hribman

 

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mikst

Joined Sep 2002

323 Posts | 3+

Sweden

• Oct 18, 2004

• #10

Husaberg's opinion is that it is the moister which destroy the stator.
That's the only thing they have told me

 

B

BD

Joined Sep 2002

212 Posts | 0+

Great Northwest

• Oct 18, 2004

• #11

The oil in the stator housing will certainly conduct heat better than the air. If this was combined with a finned cover design to dissipate housing temeratures, I think you guys could definately drive the heat down. This would be relatively easy to validify by instrumented testing of a "stocker" versus an oil bath modified system. BD

 

Splat

Joined Dec 2003

587 Posts | 2+

Where ever we park the motorhome, USA

• Oct 18, 2004

• #12

mikst said:

Husaberg's opinion is that it is the moister which destroy the stator.
That's the only thing they have told me

Click to expand...

Presuming that you start with a stator that is mechanically sound, the oil should prevent any corrosion that would normally be caused by moisture penetrating the windings.

 

H

hribman

Joined May 2004

304 Posts | 0+

Germany

• Oct 19, 2004

• #13

Hi,

sorry I don´t think so. We have dismantled several failed SEM stators
and found out that it was not the moistuire which damaged the coils.
I have seen failed stators which looked like new without any corrosion on it.
Maybe it´s the combination of heat, vibration and sometimes condensation water.
So the oil idea could work.
Let´s test it.

greetings

hribman

 

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maichusa

Joined Mar 2002

437 Posts | 0+

The Netherlands

• Oct 19, 2004

• #14

Just a thought; if the covers are sealed enough to keep the water out, how are you going to keep the oil in??? :wink:

 

Splat

Joined Dec 2003

587 Posts | 2+

Where ever we park the motorhome, USA

• Oct 19, 2004

• #15

maichusa said:

Just a thought; if the covers are sealed enough to keep the water out, how are you going to keep the oil in??? :wink:

Click to expand...

Silicon FormaGasket
a.k.a. RTV Gasket sealer

I use it on my rocker covers in place of the paper gaskets.

 

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BundyBear

Joined Apr 2003

1K Posts | 3+

Newcastle, NSW, Australia

• Oct 19, 2004

• #16

Dale spoke of his work with the BBR501, & how they could not keep stators up to it. It was a non counterbalanced 'berg 501 engine in this tiny little slip of a yee-hah frame that was hand-built Brown Brothers (?). Perhaps Dale could point us toward a pic of it?

They believed the stator problem to be from vibration which was seen to be worse than a normal 'berg due to the natural harmonics of the engine/frame combination. Water ingress was not thought to be such an issue.

Has anyone noticed more stator failures in non-counterbalanced engines (eg non e-start pre2001s) compared to the balance shafted ones?

 

husabutt

Joined Feb 2003

3K Posts | 384+

Escondido, Ca. USA

• Oct 19, 2004

• #17

Giant tuning fork

 

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BermBuster

Joined Aug 2002

35 Posts | 0+

• Oct 21, 2004

• #18

This oil in the stator area sounds interesting, but like most science experiments, it could take 2 years or more to know conclusive results!

For those who have switched to a Keihin carb (like me), I also installed a KTM carb inlet, that mounts between the carb body and air filter boot. It has a port on the side that is perfect for connection of a air cooling vent liine. KTM uses it for the crankcase ventilation hose.

 

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kneedown

Joined Jul 2003

27 Posts | 0+

Lancaster, PA USA

• Oct 22, 2004

• #19

I'll donate the time & bike if someone else donates a brand-new stator for a '99 FS600 SM.

Anyone? Anyone?