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The mind boggles..........

Joined Jun 2001
1K Posts | 3+
Berkshire, England
Well, my mind is completely fried on this one so here goes:

It's my 2001 FS650 that has now be de-tuned to stock engine components for trail ride use and therefore needed to be softened off a little bit :?

The only modifications it has is the LX1 cam now but the problem occurred with the 55 cam anyway and I have fitted a 2003 enduro exhaust system.

The problem is that the intake boot keeps on filling up with fuel - so much so that the engine will not run with the boot in place. With the boot removed the bike starts and runs fine barring a slight missfire at 1/4-1/3 throttle which much worsens slightly under load (e.g. 3rd gear compared to 1st). This missfire was death to the running with the boot on.

The following are the things I have already checked:

Cam timing - triple checked, trust me, this is OK, including even a new countershaft cam chain gear to remove excess play in the chain.

Cylinder head has been removed to check valve seals etc. Last time I the valves themselves out of the head was when de-tuning the engine - about 4-5 hours running ago.

Carburettor, been to pieces more times I've slid down the road, including having checked and adjusted the float level. We've been from silly lean jetting to silly rich jetting and just about everything in between.

Spark is fine but since when has the carb. intake boot had anything to do with the ignition?

Instinct stillsays it is either valve timing or carb. - but what exactly?

Any ideas however imaginative would be very gratefully received.

Ta,
Simon
 
i'm afraid i would put it back to completely standard. IMHO the camtiming can look right but isn't and it's usually the side gears and not the cam gear.

you need the cam timing set to perfection, you can't just bolt it in due to the huge amount of overlap. it really is a racing cam.

the other one i think of is that the ignition unit has had it.

Taffy
 
Hi Simon,

The problem is most likely as a result of the increased overlap of the X1 camshaft coupled with a restrictive and / or spark arrestor equipped exhaust.

Multiple carburetion is the given name. Heavy throttle opening / low rpm operation in particularly with a capped exhaust (ie closed end cap, Krizman insert, etc.) will induce reversion through the inlet tract. This creates an extremely rich condition as the carburetor fails to recognize flow direction and as a result picks up an additional fuel charge.

When you remove the boot fuel stand-off is dispersed with a consequent reduction in mixture strength.

A considerable overall reduction in fuel delivery will treat the symptom with good results. Please keep in mind that peak power will also be reduced.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Dale

Ps
This is a simplified explanation as high amplitude finite waves in the exhaust system coupled with big ports and / or heavy valve overlap supercharge in some rpm ranges and plug in others. A study unto itself.
 
I almost forgot :oops:
A simple test is to replace the enduro muffler with that of a straight through unit. Straight through means just that as even a screen will create havoc.
Dale
 
Thank you gents,

Dale,

You have once again given me one of those Aaaaaaaahhhhhh yes! :idea: moments, much appreciated, thank you! Having had the LX1 running perfectly in the 03 650 it really had me scratching my head.

I'll test with straight through exhaust and then see if we can reduce fuel delivery so we can run the enduro exhaust or alternatively make something up that works.

Reduction in HP is not a concern for trail riding. Especially since the test runs I've done in current trim with your cam have scared me silly, having turned the 650 from animal to untamed beast! It is absolutely mad 8O


Taffy,

thanks for the suggestions, but unfortunately all points we've double checked - well, I actually checked the cam timing 4 or 5 times until someone else got fed up with my self-doubt and checked my work, confirming it was spot on.

Ignition is also pretty much in pristine condition.

Thanks again,
Simon
 
"huge amount of overlap."

well i knew it was in thew cam somewhere!

i've had similar trouble in 1980 but dale let me down-he wasn't around to tell me!!!!! :D :D

Taffy
 
Well lads, I have a 01 470e with an X1 cam in it. The bike has been somewhat difficult to start cold. I had a Big Gun race can lying around, put it on last night and low and behold the bike starts in a coulple of kicks now. I guess thats all it took :D .
 

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