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The Dreaded Dead Throttle Spot

Joined Mar 2005
13 Posts | 0+
Rancho Cucamonga, Ca.
I just purchased a used 05 fe550e. The bike came with the Dreaded Dead Throttle Spot that occurs when the throttle is wicked open off idle.

After reading all the posts that an FCR jetting search would produce I spent several hours playing with jetting with no favorable results when I decided to check the AP (accelerator pump) for efficiency. What I found was a dribble coming out of the AP nozzle when the throttle was twisted open. I took the carb off the bike removed the float bowl so that I could check to see if the AP diaphragm was pumping fuel and also to get to the AP circuit to blow it out with compressed air. Once apart I found the AP diaphragm mechanism to be working fine so I turned my attention towards the AP nozzle. I attempted to blow air though the AP circuit and nozzle from where it would normally meet up with the other half of the circuit coming from the float bowl. At first 100 psi would barely create a stream from the AP nozzle (kind of like what an enlarged prostrate will do) then the air stopped flowing all together. I tried to spray brake cleaner through the circuit hoping that whatever plugged it would dissolve from the cleaner, I had no luck using brake cleaner to unplug the now plugged nozzle so I took the bottom half of the main carb body apart. In there I found a check valve, no doubt used to keep the fuel from draining back into the float bowl after the AP circuit had been used. This check valve looked to be a likely place for blockage to occur so I sprayed the brake cleaner through it and found it to be wide open. I then attempted to spray the brake cleaner through the remaining portion of the circuit to the AP nozzle and found the blockage to still exist at the nozzle. My experience with industrial pumping equipment has taught me that a blockage sometimes can only be dislodged by reversing the flow from the opposite end (I don’t recommend trying this for constipation). In order to accomplish this with the AP nozzle I had to remove the intake funnel to create access for a compressed air blowgun. Once I was able to blow compressed air back through the nozzle the blockage disappeared.

After I put the carb back together the AP would squirt a stream of fuel four feet with the carb at waist height (much like a human male nozzle after a six pack). With everything back together the bike ran great. The Dreaded Dead Throttle Spot was gone. With all the components within the AP mechanism, (i.e. two check valves, the rubber diaphragm, the tiny brass nozzle and all the related linkage) there is a lot to go wrong, and this component of the carb provides the quick response off idle. I believe this problem I encountered with the AP circuit on my bike may be the problem with many older bikes that have been subjected to a carb that has dried out several times between rides allowing deposits to affect the AP circuits efficiency or even make it inoperable. I believe the AP circuit is the first place the owner of an older FCR should check when encountering the Dreaded Dead Throttle Spot.
 
cheers wyatt

loved the humour running through your post.

the dead spot was found to be a rich condition on most carbs that then caused a lean condition. so let me explain!

if you run a bike too rich with say a 178MJ when it wants a 160MJ what you have to do to get decent running is to lower the needle. this leans out the fuel at medium throttle settings and by the time wee get to full MJ the bike will pretty much burn anything. also, flat out is flat out and we're not looking for coughs or glitches at 10,000rpm are we?

the needle is designed for the taper to start as we open the throttle. this should be understandable for everyone i hope. throttle starts to move, needle starts to taper in.

sadly, we just dropped the needle 3mm making up for that overly rich main jet. so now the throttle moves but for 3mm we don't get ANY MORE FUEL. this dead spot had everyone thinking that they were lean and indeed if you put in a far larger PJ you can overcome it but alas your 1/4 throttle is now like an old packet of fish n chips.

so the answer is to do things right from the top to the bottom.

MJ first
then the needle
then the PJ

just trying to dispel the myth mate that's all. keep up the good work.

regards

Taffy
 
Re: RE: The Dreaded Dead Throttle Spot

Hi Taffy,

Couldn't of put it better my self, sounds like you are a bit of a carb guru man after my own heart. I did some work for the Sherco factory early this year, they were having trouble with the dreaded Sherco 4t if you have owned one you would know what i mean. Sherco thought it was an ignition problem breaking down when hot but it didn't take me long to find out it was carb problems grossly over jetted, mainly needle and nozzle.
I turned up some needles from old dyno jet ones I had collected over the years and got it running pretty good but when I confronted Sherco they wouldn't have it they still insisted it was ignition. so with no more ado I rang Appleyards up in Yorkshire borrowed a bike and and booked half a day on the dyno, flue over to Leeds and Bradford airport did the dyno work, my college couldn't believe how badly it was jetted from the factory. i now do a jet kit for the 4t and you can see the difference if you take look at the dyno report on my web site, Sherco still didn't want to know infact I have heard they have dropped the Dellorto and are going with a Keihan for there new model. you might ask why I went to all this trouble, and the answer, I wanted to prove the factory wrong which gave me great satisfaction.

sparks.
www.uk-motoplat.com
 
RE: Re: RE: The Dreaded Dead Throttle Spot

so this was on a dell orto?

i did 50 tests or so on that thing and i still wasn't happy at the end. mind you i did start with 10 needles in the ol box from the pantah days. i was just getting there and simply couldn't look at the keihin nfcr sat on the shelf any more.

as you'll note, i designed a mod for the mk1 carbs APJ and got it named after me. the Taff mod.

i know more about the FCR than anyone except bloody lineaweaver i reckon! of all the places to meet another geek it was in this little hut!

regards

Taffy
 
Re: RE: Re: RE: The Dreaded Dead Throttle Spot

I know more about the FCR than anyone except bloody lineaweaver I reckon! of all the places to meet another geek it was in this little hut!

regards

Taffy

Ah shucks, Thanks Taffy. :oops:
Dale
 

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