The counter balancer effect

mikst · Dec 20, 2004

Hi,

In the Iridium topic I started a handling question. However, in the line from work I remembered that I read in the flyer that the counter balancer should reduce the inertia of moment. Hence, the bike should be easier to handle in the curves. Not gain stability.

This is a review of the four open class bikes Ã¢â‚¬â€œ02:

[web]http://www.husaberg.org/site/quickordead.htm[/web]

View it on it's own HERE.

schwim · Dec 20, 2004

RE: oh, the horrors!

Hi Mikst,

All the images are coming up broken for me. Your links are pointing to images like so:

Code:

[url]http://www.geocities.com/mikael_stern/T%5Cimg1.jpe[/url]

Which contains some problems. One, it's missing the "g" in "jpeg". Secondly, it's converted spaces into code, so some browsers won't be able to view the images.

If you can fix the images, I'll harvest the page and host it here. Or I can log into that account, dl it, fix it and put it up here. Or You can send me a zip file with all the stuff....

thanks,
json

mikst · Dec 20, 2004

You will soon have a zip-file

LINEAWEAVER · Dec 20, 2004

mikst said:
Hi,

In the Iridium topic I started a handling question. However, in the line from work I remembered that I read in the flyer that the counter balancer should reduce the inertia of moment. Hence, the bike should be easier to handle in the curves. Not gain stability.

I hope this will work for a while. If there are no photos or the link doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t work, try another day since then the free limit is reached. This is a review of the four open class bikes Ã¢â‚¬â€œ02.

Can you say Marketing?

In theory the balance assembly offsets the gyroscopic effect of the crankshaft making for lighter steering. In truth and through testing no such effect is evident even during operation @ peak RPM and speeds in excess of 115 MPH.

Kind Regards,
Dale

mikst · Dec 20, 2004

I can say marketing.

Yes, I do.

I can also say still waiting for spare parts as well :?

biggish · Dec 20, 2004

My 2001 650 is due to be opened up soon and I was given a replacement counterbalancer with double bearings when I bought the bike. Apparently the original unit on the 2001 models was prone to failure.

I have been told by the dealer that the replacement unit will possibly generate quite a bit of noise from the cut of the gears running on the slightly worn gears - is this true and is it a problem?

So if, as Dale suggests, the counterbalancer has no real effect can one simply leave it out of the engine or is a spacer of some sort required.

Suggestions please?

Thanks
B

Splat · Dec 21, 2004

Removing the balancer is an option. You will need to rebalance your crankshaft, though. And yes you will need a spacer, I believe the gear needs to still be in place to drive something, but I cannot remember specifically. The counter balance also acts as a flywheel weight, which is required in the dirt for enduro type riding. The engine will rev too quickly without it and traction will be a problem. Keep in mind, that Dale's mod of removing the counter balancer has mainly been for flat track racing, where the low speed traction and hill climbing ability are not involved.

I doubt the new gears will make much noise, if they do, it will subside once the gears wear to match. All new gears wear to match, so do not be concerned using a new c.b. gear with a used crankshaft.

Just remember to do the 3 hour oil change as on new engines.

Then again after another 5 hours, then go to the 10 hour factory recommended interval.

I found metal shavings in my first three oil changes, but none after that.

mikst · Dec 21, 2004

The shaft operates the lower timing chain sprocket

LINEAWEAVER · Dec 21, 2004

[quote="Splat" Dale's mod of removing the counter balancer has mainly been for flat track racing, where the low speed traction and hill climbing ability are not involved.
[/quote]

With all due respect nothing could be further from the truth!

Every post 2000 engine for which I have removed the balance assembly has been applied to general off road and / or motard / street application.

During the balalncing stage I install metal slugs which have twice the mass of steel. With such a modification flywheel effect is actually increased. In addition noise and low speed vibration are significantly reduced.

The drawback to proper balance removal is simply that of additional cost and down time.

Kind Regards,
Dale

husabutt · Dec 21, 2004

If even more flywheel weight is desired Steahly Off Road can add weight to the SEM flywheels.

Steahly Off Road

I just put one on my kids YZ85 and it really smoothed out the power nicely. I don't think anyone here has tried one though.

DaleEO · Dec 21, 2004

Dale,

I would think that the removal of the counter balancer would make the bike very pitch sensitive in the air with regards to opening or closing the throttle. I.E. instant nose dive in the air if you chop the throttle. I say this b/c my 94 501 did not have a counter balancer and was extremely pitch sensitive in the air with regards to opening or closing the throttle. My 2001 501 was a huge improvement in this regard.

Also, I am wondering what effect this pitch effect would have on chassis dynamics during most forseeable riding conditions. Especially while entering, during, and exiting turns.

LINEAWEAVER · Dec 21, 2004

DaleEO said:
Dale,

I would think that the removal of the counter balancer would make the bike very pitch sensitive in the air with regards to opening or closing the throttle. I.E. instant nose dive in the air if you chop the throttle. I say this b/c my 94 501 did not have a counter balancer and was extremely pitch sensitive in the air with regards to opening or closing the throttle. My 2001 501 was a huge improvement in this regard.

Also, I am wondering what effect this pitch effect would have on chassis dynamics during most forseeable riding conditions. Especially while entering, during, and exiting turns.

Mid air pitch sensitivity is as a result of piston forces acting upon the cylinder and therefore unrelated to that of the balance assembly. Gyroscopic procession (with regard to yaw) in theory is indeed influenced by such additional hardware as an axial mount, contra rotating balance unit, however, in real world testing no quantifiable improvement has been noted.

The changes in handling between your two 501's has everything to do with chassis design (including weight bias) and little if anything to do with the addition or absence of a balance assembly. One need only ride an early electric start (ie balance unit equipped) 501 / 600 to fully realize this.

Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Dale

JoeUSA · Dec 21, 2004

Hi DaleEO,

Dale Lineaweaver removed the balancer etc. of my 04 550 and I am reassembling my engine as we speak. Its a brand new 04 550 FE just like yours, that I haven't even ridden yet. Maybe we can trade bikes for a few minutes after I break it in, and you can see for your self.

I also have a 2000 FE501E (electric start/ counter balancer) that Dale mentions in his pitch up/down discussion that you can try for comparison.

Regards,

Joe

DaleEO · Dec 21, 2004

Thanks Dale,

I am currently working on a 98 600 Elduro for a friend of mine. Although I don't think I'll be getting that bike air bourne enough to prove that theory out

BD · Dec 21, 2004

flywheel weight.

Husabutt, I've had Steahly put about 11 ounces on my FE400e flywheel. It has made it virtually stall free on the trails, but there is a minor sacrifice in acceleration. Very good effect for me and my riding style. With a spare flywheel, I can switch it back and forth readily, but have not wanted to. I also run a 50 tooth sprocket, and I've achieved my goal of increasing low speed "tractoring". BD

husabutt · Dec 21, 2004

Thanks for the input BD.

I was really happy with the difference it made to my kids mini, so much so that I may need one also. I might try a 50 tooth too as I just don't go as fast as I used to (or as fast as I thought I went)

.

DaleEO · Dec 21, 2004

JoeUSA said:
Hi DaleEO,

Dale Lineaweaver removed the balancer etc. of my 04 550 and I am reassembling my engine as we speak. Its a brand new 04 550 FE just like yours, that I haven't even ridden yet. Maybe we can trade bikes for a few minutes after I break it in, and you can see for your self.

I also have a 2000 FE501E (electric start/ counter balancer) that Dale mentions in his pitch up/down discussion that you can try for comparison.

Regards,

Joe

Well Joe that's might neighborly of ya.

I will take you up on it.

Thanks again,

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The counter balancer effect

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