Telescoping Needle problem

Re: Don't use Telescoping Needle on shock, see why...

Go see Palo Verde (MX-Tech) in Glendale.

http://www.paloverdemx.com/

Re: Don't use Telescoping Needle on shock, see why...

2005FC550

I was alerted to this forum by a member who informed me of your situation. I am the person who developed the concept of the Telescoping needle for the PDS shocks. I am sorry for your current dilemma and am at a loss to explain as to why this occured. There are literally thousands of these items in circulation. Here in Australia we have only had one failure and that was a result of our own installation error. One of my technicians had left out the conical washer that aligns the needle allowing it to move laterally within its confines, subsequently contacting the shaft. The needles that are manufactured here in Australia are made from 4140 high grade steel. These needles have proven themselves to be extremely durable and reliable. I know the RT item manufactured in the US is made from Stainless steel. I can't say whether you have experienced a manufacturing, material or installation error without having any history with the shock, but I would like to help you out. I will gladly replace the needle (with one of ours) and piston bands that are clearly scarred.
You mention that the needle offered no tangible improvement in progression. This leads me to think that something was wrong right from the start. The needle represents the single biggest suspension upgrade you can offer the PDS shock and is highly noticable. Let me know your address details and I will ship the parts.
Regards
Terry Hay
Shock Treatment
Australia

Re: Don't use Telescoping Needle on shock, see why...

I mention this very same warning early last year concerning Terry's needle (from RT) and the 'berg shock. Mine lasted about 60 miles before it began to seize.

Bob Bell tossed it for one of his custom needles and the shock has never been better.

Re: Don't use Telescoping Needle on shock, see why...

I intend to contact Paul Thede from RT tonight to suggest he ceases from selling the US version of the needle. There is no way a standard needle will outperform the telescoping version no matter what anyone else says. Quite valid however are the concerns over the reliablity of the RT version. The concept is sound. One of the most switched on tuners in the US would have to be Jeremy Wilkey, founder of MX-Tech. In a recent comparison between Jeremy,s best setup vs the telescoping needle, the Telescoping
needle won hands down. (results soon to be published on KTMtalk)
Understandabley you guys would be wary of trying the needle again but I stand by the design integrity and have countless testimonials from KTM/Husaberg owners who are extremely happy. Powerecell, if you are willing to try the needle again I extend to you the same offer as I made to 550. I would supply the original Australian needle free of charge. Installation can also be arranged.
Terry Hay

Re: Don't use Telescoping Needle on shock, see why...

That's a very generous offer Terry. But for desert racing Precision Concepts sets the standard for suspension setup. Bob raises a lot of eyebrows with his super-soft springs and unique needles - but damd if they don't work great!!!

I will offer to send you my used (and damaged) RT needle so you can use it to better understand the problem.

Send me a PM and we can make arrangement to get it out to you...

Re: Don't use Telescoping Needle on shock, see why...

Terry, all I have to say is this: you claim your stuff beats Wilkey's stuff, but if the version of your stuff sold by RT is crap and destroys the suspension assembly, then I'd rather go with the runner-up, knowing his stuff is reliable...

Re: Don't use Telescoping Needle on shock, see why...

550
My main concern first and foremost is with the specifications of the RT needle in standard trim. Its possible there is a tolerance problem that hasn't accounted for heat expansion or oil film thickness between the fixed and sliding length. I will request a number of their stock be sent for evaluation. As I have stated we do not have a problem with our examples.
I am sure Bob Bell has his suspension dialed. Still, I would have complete confidence in one of our shocks going head to head with one of his, no matter what the conditions. Once again I find your situation regrettable.

Frog
I appreciate the "safe bet" concept and know where you are coming from. Nonetheless it takes nothing away from the potential for improvement made available with the addition of the needle. It's late over here. But I will post an explanation tomorrow on the PDS shock and exactly how damping progression is obtained.
Terry Hay

Re: Don't use Telescoping Needle on shock, see why...

Well Terry, i'd never even thought about it before but you sold me! How much are the parts, i have my shock apart now for a rebuild - would be the perfect time for an upgrade. Jared

Re: Don't use Telescoping Needle on shock, see why...

TerryHay said:

The concept is sound. One of the most switched on tuners in the US would have to be Jeremy Wilkey, founder of MX-Tech. In a recent comparison between Jeremy,s best setup vs the telescoping needle, the Telescoping
needle won hands down. (results soon to be published on KTMtalk)
Terry Hay

Click to expand...

Hi guys Jeremy Wilkey here. Thanks in advance for letting me insert my 2 cents. I would enjoy talking with any of you about needle design and creating a true rising rate of progression in a PDS system. However this may not be the place or the time as it pertains to a needle design that I certainly have nothing to do with. I would like to offer a comment however on how surprised I am to hear Terry declare the results of a test on KTMtalk as if they have already been determined? The test is far from over, and no definitive results have been made. Terry we will get our day, win lose or draw so lets let the judge make the call before you state the results.

BR,
Jer

Re: Don't use Telescoping Needle on shock, see why...

thanks to both of you for your views and if we want the results be sure we will be over to agent orange to see what they are.

come back in a few days when maddel has added photos to the owners doc here-suspension and handling. it's on your left now. the doc.

positive input is greatly appreciated and not business rivalry.

whatever happened at the top of this thread will only serve as a caution to 99% of members. warm advice will go further.

regards

Taffy

Re: Don't use Telescoping Needle on shock, see why...

I apologize for the delay in my reply. To many distractions and obligations.
Jeremy
You and I are both priveleged to prior knowledge of the outcome. And.. even though the results were in my favour, I have never once doubted your ability or integrity. You have my respect and first recommendation of any tuner in the USA.
As you know the offer was made to all of the major players in the suspension industry to test their wares
Out of all the tuners that wildly beat their chests and claim to have
"The best suspension..PERIOD!!" You and I remained the only two who displayed the utmost faith in their products.
I'm still up for the beer, boxing gloves and whiteboard, should the opportunity ever arise. You're a great guy and an awesome rival. Not to mention tireless and persistant. I don't want to argue with you anymore. Chances are your forks may be considered favourable to mine. If this is the case....I salute you.
I'm not here to do anything more than support the people who have invested time and money in trying our suspension. It kills me to see what has transpired. I have offered to amend the issue involving the RT version of our needle. Until I receive the samples I have requested I am in the dark. I have requested however that the items be removed from sale until I am satisfied with the specifications.
Regards
Terry Hay

Re: Don't use Telescoping Needle on shock, see why...

Last year, on KtmTalk, I was posting about the work that Dicks Racing did on my shock. Terry Hays offerred to give me a free needle and arrainge installation for a comparison to the work done by Dicks. I replied in the thread that I would like to try his needle. I pm'ed him a half dozen times, but he never replied, much less come through on his offer. My point to this? I don't trust anything that he posts. I doubt that he would ask his US maker and distributor to immediately stop selling needles, and I doubt that he will follow through on the above posted offers.

BUYER BEWARE!

You see what happened.

Re: Don't use Telescoping Needle on shock, see why...

Terry has posted a number of times over there that he wants people to call, as he does not do emails, nor checks pm's.

Re: Don't use Telescoping Needle on shock, see why...

Splat
I find it hard to believe that you would trail your post with preaching after a display of such vindictiveness.... Truly petty.
I have never denied assistance to anyone who has bothered to call. As Brendan stated I have repeatedly requested that people call rather than PM as I am irregular at checking the computer. After assisting many people with free information on various websites I feel your comments are in the poorest taste. Many regulars on KTMtalk (who took the time to call) Husqy510, PMK etc have received and installed the needle. To this day, with complete success. I have spoken with RT and measures have been taken. I expect to receive samples from them any day now. Paul Thede is of the belief that some of the needles from a previous batch had alignment issues. They believed that they had caught it in time. Obviously some have slipped through the cracks. RT have assured me they will offer warranty to anyone that has a problem with any of their products.
It's easy to publicly berate someone for not living up to everyone's expectations. My free time is limited and my computer time even more so. It has just passed midnight on Sunday evening here. I have briefly visited KTMtalk and thought I would check out this site. I like to discuss suspension issues and assist those in need. My only request, now and always....don't PM me. Give me a call 61 2 47739115 Sydney is 19 hours ahead of LA time.
Terry Hay

Your post was fine, it made Terry Hay react in a positive manner by contacting his US importer to make sure he improves his version of the product and many riders should benefit from this.

What happened to your suspension is not fun, I hope RT fixed it at no charge.

I don't think you went overboard.