Takasago Excel rim question

BundyBear · Mar 28, 2005

Any one seen a Takasago Excel rim crack through the weld seam? I was under the impression these were the benchmark of rims, or is that just good marketing?

I pulled the front rim off mine to replace it because it is all but cracked through, even though it is not bent anywhere. I was going to buy another Excel but now I'm not so sure.

It would appear that the rear one has already been changed for an Akront brand rim made in Spain. I have a matching Akront front rim on an old drum brake wheel. I was told it was from a CR, but I did not think to question whether it might be Husky or Honda. Getting it to bits might be a challenge though.

Husabergler · Mar 28, 2005

Hello,
I have had good luck with the excel rims.even more my oldest boy
races a 125 and is a big jumper. He has turned some of his wheels into octagons, but they never cracked or broke.
The Acront rims are well manufactured rims also I'm told, however
I have no personal experience with the brand.
If you have a spare in the correct dimensions and spoke count,compare
the spoke holes for angle and diameter. If compatable give it a shot.
Just clip off the old spokes with a pair of bolt cutters if you have some.
they do not need to be a big pair .

Whos-a-berg · Mar 28, 2005

Excel Rims are lame!!!
I've been told there's supposed to be three different grades of excel rims, single, double and triple. You're supposed to be able to tell which is which from the no. of excel logos on the rim, the more the tougher. I've got a single on the front and a double on the back and they both look like fifty cent pieces, and I can't even remeber hitting anything decent.

Also, I know modern honda CR's run DID rims but I'm not sure about the older models. DID rims are the go, I had to send my excels and a mates DID's off to get anodised and when I compared them side by side the DID's were heaps thicker and just as light. I've done ten's of thousands of kays on crap rocky roads and country side on DID rims, and a few kays with flat tyres, and never had a problem.

BundyBear · Mar 28, 2005

Thanks heaps for the advice! I'll try the one I have & see how it goes. Id does have the right number of spoke holes.

BundyBear · Mar 30, 2005

Husabergler said:
If you have a spare in the correct dimensions and spoke count,compare the spoke holes for angle and diameter.

You are right about the spoke holes being drilled in the right direction! Your comment made me go & look at what I have at home. This post is especially important to anyone who wants to lace their own front wheel (eg SM wheels) for a '99 or earlier Husaberg.

It would seem there are two ways the spoke patterns can work. Typically disc brake wheels have the same PCD (pitch circle diameter) of the spoke anchor holes in each side of the hub. Looking at one side of the wheel, a spoke pattern is established between the closest side of the the hub and every second spoke hole in the rim. This same pattern is then copied to the other side of the hub but, because it must fill the spoke holes in between those used by the first side, this pattern must be indexed or rotated by the angle between two spoke holes at the rim. The direction of this indexing (clockwise or counterclockwise) dictates the direction spoke holes in the rim will have to be drilled at to line up with the spokes. It means that a rim that suits one type will not lend itself to being laced onto a hub of the other without doing a real crappy spoking job.

The only wheels I can find so far in photos of bikes that index CCW from closest to furthest side are 'berg front wheels from 1989 thru to 1999. Everything else I found, including 'berg fronts from 2000 onwards and all 'berg rears seem to index CW. A KTM front from 1995, both ends of a Gas Gas EC400 and even the pic of the bike (Jap?) on the box of a new tube I bought was CW.

CCW rims seem much less common. So far I have not found any rear wheels of this type.

The Excel front rim that was on my '98 bike was obviously (now anyway!) not original or correct as it was 1.85" wide rather than the normal 1.60" for a 'berg and its spoke holes are drilled for a CW spoke pattern while the hub is CCW. The misalignment between the spoke nipple & the nipple hole in the rim explains why the wheel "looked a bit funny" and half of the spokes have a kink in them where the nipple screws on. The bloody Akront front rim I was going to use is drilled in almost the same way as the Excel that came off the the bike - ie CW. Short of welding up every second spoke hole & redrilling them I don't think I can use the rim.

Spoke patterns are not always the same each side for drum brake wheels that have the anchors on the periphery of the drum on one side only. The Akront rim, off an old drum brake hub, has its spoke holes that were on the drum side drilled so they are splayed a bit more that the rest.

A question that now springs to mind - What the hell can happen to a bike that would require the replacement of BOTH rims, with the front one replaced twice???? The rest of the bike looks to have had a relatively easy life(?) but now that I think about it, the front axle was bent and it may have had a case welded near the front lower engine mount - a spot not renowned for cracking. If this thing has been through a restoration, it has been damn well done!

Now that you mention it, the reason I have the KTM front is it was an old one that had been replaced on a previous bike. The reason it got replaced is that it had cracked through the seam (similar to my Ã¢â‚¬Ëœberg) and someone has attempted to weld it but botched the job. It is a DID rim. It looks like all the brands bust occasionally.

rgrant · Jul 16, 2005

I've had two DID rims crack nearly all the way through, and not near the seam. But these were older rims that had seen some miles, but not beaten to death. I think after a while all aluminum rims fatigue and crack it's just a matter of load cycles before failure.

Roger

BP219 · Jul 16, 2005

I've had over 40 dirt bikes in my life and the only two rims that I have ever bent are both Excels...go figure !?

steve · Jul 17, 2005

Hi bundybear,

My recent experience with my 98 FE501 has been expensive. The standard DID rim finally sucumbed at the join. I had welded it perhaps 3 times but the most recent attempt stuffed it. A new Excel was ordered from Suttos which turned up the next day. Wrong pattern appeared, just as it did on every other rim I had available and on every other bike I could spot and as you've described so eloquently. I drive to Sydney on Friday because I was racing on the Saturday and needed it sorted. Money was refunded and a new ex Husky Behr rim, correct pattern, was sourced from Husky Imports / R&D at Penrith. Lace up Friday night late and ready to ride for Saturday.

10km into the event and look at the rim and it is stuffed. I decided it was made of plasticine. It even spread at the rim lock, $400 of junk. return to Sydney to Husky Imports on Monday morning with entire wheel to try for a refund. They ended up giving me $100 under duress and to make me go away.

Back to Suttos and get secondhand late model hub to go with recently returned and now reclaimed rim. Return home and get a mate to machine up some new spacers to adapt bearings to axle. Means spacers are now captive and thats good. Go to bolt on my old disc that I was assured would fit and guess what, the pcd of the mounting holes is out by about 5 mm. Order a new disc.

So, 1 new rim, including 2 trips to Sydney ends up costing all up <> $1000 and results in a complete new wheel. Anyone interested in buying a 98 hub?

Was planning to buy a steering damper, so that will have to be delayed a bit.

Steve

BundyBear · Jul 17, 2005

Steve
If I had known you needed a KTM front hub I have a spare with full set of spokes.

The older Huskies definitely used Excel rims of the correct spoke pattern. My mate's '96 TE610 front rim would go straight on my '98 'berg.

I ground (filed actually!) the spoke holes on the Akront rim I had to suit the 'berg. It seems to have worked OK so far. I can post pix if anyone needs to see what it looks like.

HusaStarts · Jul 18, 2005

I have anodized a lot of rims and can tell the type of aluminum they are made of while stripping off the old anodize. all of the excell rims I've done have been 7000 series aluminum. I have done 3 sets of DID wheels
and 2 sets where 2000 series (stock 02 cr80 & 02 yz80) while 1 set was
7075 (2000 vor 400). From what I understand both the 2000 and 7000 series aluminums are considered high strength but the 2000 series is less subject to fatigue.

Phil

steve · Jul 19, 2005

Hi Bundy,

Thanks for the offer of the hub. The problem was that it all had to happen overnight, hence deciding to take days off work and drive to Sydney, which gives the option of tripping around if necessary. With more time, I know it would have been sorted much more cheaply. I thoight using Suttos, who are just about Oz's oldest Berg dealer and who have been great to date would have got me the correct bits first time. Chris was very apologetic and offered a good deal on the bits to finally resolve the thing.

A couple of years ago I decided to upgrade the front end of my wife's XT250T from drum to disc. This ended up resulting in XL250 forks with a CR hub disc and caliper. The drum brake rim also means that the spokes on one side now don't pull quite straight but considering the low stress levels she subjects it to I figured it would be OK. So far so good. At least they pull in the general direction.

And a tip. When your wheels are new, or newish, and you are replacing a tyre, remove every spoke nipple one at a time and apply copious amounts of antisieze, or maybe heavy grease to both the threads and under the nipple head. Means that years later you can still adjust them and pull them apart and recycle without problem. One at a time means that you won't get the wheel out of true as you do it.

Steve

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