Stator, 20% more power!!

Scully · Oct 4, 2004

Well I have been in contact with an electrical Guru at Betta Bikes in S/Aust and he has just rewired a Berg 650 03 stator and gained 20% better power at cranking? He ( and I) are still waiting to hear from the owner, but he is probably still out in the bush huning around?? So before I send mine off I have a few questions that hopefully Brad or someone else with good electrical skills can help me with?
My bike is starting very well now with a NEW "sprag" clutch(but thats another story) but still on 24 volts, as 12 does not get a large enough spark. I suspect my stator is failing even tho it passed the tests with the metre, it looks a little swollen (despite no water at ALL getting in) and the bike did actually start on 12 volts once.

1...... What are the 2 yellow wires coming from the stator? Is one for lighting? Could I swap them over? As my lighting seems really good?I am guessing but on the stator there are 2 lots of "poles" upper & lower, and seeing as tho we all have problems with stators at cranking I suspect the upper(there is less) poles are the starting cct?

2......What is the actual voltage we should see across the battery while bike is idling? and revved? ( seems to be alot of opinions on this) My voltage seems to be very dependent on the state of the battery, if its fully charged the voltage will be 13.2 idling and go up to 14.90 when revved, but when the battery is getting close to needing a recharge the voltage is as low as 11.5 and it will gradually creep up but will not get up to 14 volts again?

3. What does the Regulator actually do, and how can we check it? Same for the regulator/rectifier unit.

If I were to send my stator for a rewind how would they go about getting the plastic from the back OFF as mine is starting to swell and crack? I realise this might sound like a stupid question, but better to ask a stupid question that make a stupid mistake!
Thanks all,
Scully

LINEAWEAVER · Oct 4, 2004

Myths and Legends

For what it may be worth:

Contrary to popular belief a fair portion of "E" start woes is attributed to the trigger voltage threshold ( 3 - 5 volts) and not simply that of insufficient spark discharge.

What this means in laymans terms is that in order to produce a sufficient trigger voltage the engine must spin in excess of 500 rpm @ the point of ignition request. If one simply increases the trigger voltage output the advance curve becomes corrupt.

I have been working on a retrofit CDI box that contains a lower trigger threshold though have yet to optimize the advance curve.

The point:
It is unlikely that increasing the capacitor charge coil output will assist "E" start performance.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Dale

Kind Regards,
Dale

Scully · Oct 4, 2004

Dale

"Hope this helps"?? Well not really, but thanks for your input Dale.

LINEAWEAVER · Oct 4, 2004

Re: Dale

Scully said:
"Hope this helps"?? Well not really, but thanks for your input Dale.

Hi Scully,
Knowledge is power and it is my belief that a better understanding of how things work will enable the Husaberg owner to make improved decisions and as a result have a better overall experience.

From memory:
The regulator is part of the headlamp AC circuit and is in place to avoid blowing said headlamp during high rpm running.

The battery is charged via half wave rectification and is of a balanced design (ie no regulator).

On average the charging voltage will be .2 - .5 volts higher than that of the static battery.

Hope this helps :?
Dale

Scully · Oct 4, 2004

Dale

Thanks Dale,
Now that makes sense to me.
Instead of you sending ME a cam can I have a stator instead??

Scully · Oct 5, 2004

?

Dale & Co,
Having just had another look at the wiring diagram, I realise that swapping the 2 yellow wires over would make no difference at all, what about changing the red & green wires over that come out of the stator to the coil? What I'm trying to say is; on the stator there is upper & lower "poles" the upper with less and I think is used for the spark, why cant we swap to the lower with more poles so hopefully we would see better cranking volts?
Also with all this talk of Kokusan units, why cant we fit the 04 stator & rotor to early bikes?
Come on, there must be a really good electrical person with a Berg?

Lucky · Oct 5, 2004

Hi Scully!

The two yellow wires are two identical windings for AC delivery form the stator.

One is for lightning and the other is for charging the battery.

AS you found out ther will be no difference switching them.

Paul

BundyBear · Oct 5, 2004

Scully
Was the sprag a pain to get in Oz & how much did it cost? Mine is still hanging in there but it's gotta die soon.

I soaked the stator I wound in acetone (eg polyester resin cleaner), then peeled the softened layer of potting off, then soaked it againg however I seemed to be repeating this for weeks. The acetone was good in that it did not seem to affect any of the wire, insulation or bobbins in the stator in fact I re-used the original 12V windings without problem after soaking & peeling but I would not like to be paying someone to do it that way.

The set of poles closest to the front face of the stator are for spark. I put about 10% more turns (as best I could tell) on the four spark charging coils when I rewound mine but I can't remember if I even touched the trigger coil. As Dale said, I had no idea what effect if any this would have had on the timing curve, but the bike seemed to start & run well after the rewind.

I would not attempt attaching the 12V windings to the CDI or spark system. It would not work as the spark windings have lots more turns of much finer wire and so produce higher voltages, but lower currents. Your spark system might not be too flash right now, but at least it is not blown up!

Your battery voltage sounds to be doing what it should. If it is going up to 14.9V when revved it must be charging. The fact that it won't come up with a flatter battery might indicate a suspect rectifier. Does it still not come up with both yellow wires from the stator connected together?

Remember the power coming from the 12V windings in the stator is alternating current (AC) meaning that a few hundred times a second the voltage rises from zero to a peak value, then falls to zero, then rises to a peak value in the opposite direction then falls to zero again. The regulator monitors this voltage and when it gets too high (eg a level that would blow bulbs or overcharge the battery) it switches on & puts a direct short across the stator, forcing the voltage to drop. Note that the stator current is at the absolute maximum while the regulator is shorting it out. When the AC cycle goes through zero the regulator disconnects the short & monitors the voltage again. This shorting & releasing must occur several hundred times per second.

The easiest way to check the regulator is on the bike with it running. If the battery voltage rises when you rev the bike, but does not go any higher than about 15V no matter what the engine speed then the regulator must be working correctly. It is possible to check it off the bike with a power supply & multimeter but it is really not that necessary. If you have a dodgy regulator it will generally show as the bike blowing bulbs or overcharging the battery to the point where it might rupture. It is possible for the regulator to fail in the shorted state. In that case the battery voltage will never rise, but temporarily disconnecting the regulator & giving it a rev will see the voltage rise.

The rectifier is purely an automatic "valve" that shunts the constantly reversing AC pulses from the stator to be all in the same direction to produce direct current (DC) that the battery and a few other bits such as some flasher units can use. It also acts as a valve between the regulator & battery to prevent power coming out of the battery & back through the regulator when it shorts out the stator.

The later bikes have the regulator & rectifier in the one unit.

Scully · Oct 6, 2004

Brad

Brad,
I got my sprag clutch from Bendigo Dirt Bikes for $125 and they had it in stock, pretty good and there are 13 more at Husaberg but according to MY dealer there were NONE in stock?? Brilliant service at BDK to and they know their stuff and are keen to help. They will also sell me a stator on its own if I need one.
I think I'm right in saying that these stators either go or NOT? So mine must be working it just looks a little sad.
Brad I think the main reason for these clutch's "clutchin" it is the decomp mechanism. They wear out far to easy and cause a momentary "comp lock up" and this could wear it out prematurely? Just my theory anyway. I replaced my decomp mech aprox 9 months ago and now the sprag is new I can hear it locking up again, so this is my next job to refit the old decomp with a welded end that contacts the exhaust roller, so I hope this fix's it.
Then next I will try a bigger pilot jet to see if this helps with 12 volt starting,I have to try this as so many people have told me that these Bergs just wont go with smaller pilots, well I 'll give it a go at least.
You would think there might be someone out there who worked in a wreckers that could come up with another bike that had a similar"cheap" retro fit stator assy? They could make a packet. What about a WR250F the cover looks close to the size?

Scully · Oct 6, 2004

rotor

oK , I have my stator cover off and just waiting for my brothers dial indicator to turn up so I can check the decomp mech. So what should I be looking for on the rotor to indicate deteriation? If I run a screw driver around on the inside it is very magnetic on the outer section, but on the inner section (which is where I think we get the spark?) there is a part that is at 9 o'clock to TDC marks it is not as magnetic and has some of the blackish coating missing? The stator checks out well on the multi metre.
Any thoughts?

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