smokin

Ammo · Jan 1, 2005

yesterday I had a 'incident' on the FX470e that left the bike basically laying nearly upside down and the throttle hung up allowing it to run up, not wide open, but at a higher rpm than idle for sure for 15-20 seconds.

When I got it picked up, there was a HUGE cloud of smoke, I mean HUGE.

I wasn;t ablt to get it restarted right away. I pulled in the decomp lever and spun the started and it just kept putting out heavy smoke while trying.

while towing it back to the truck, it pop started, but the throttle was still hung up so I just shut it off and called it a day

I'm guess that somehow oil got into the top end.

a little time spent cleaning up everything, an oil change, new plug, etc should take care of all that. Also need to figure out why the carb was hung up, that should be easy enough

anything else to look for or be concerned about?

44014 · Jan 2, 2005

i believe you are after this thread good sir

cheers doug

berger · Jan 2, 2005

Been there done that. Oil ran from the motor through the vent hose and into the air box (frame). From there the carb sucked it in from the air box.
You will want to clean out the air box and drain the float bowl.
I have opted out of any of the vent mods due to the fact I dont find myself in that position very often.

Taffy · Jan 3, 2005

the piston certainly didn't lack for oil so don't worry about long term damage. once you've cleaned it all up it'll be "as right as rain".

regards

Taffy

BD · Jan 3, 2005

02' FE400e

Interesting that this posting should come up right now. Yesterday I replaced the valve cover after tapping two of the bolt holes out to 1/4"20, and after reassembly, I get smoke on startup! I low RPM ride around a bit and it seems to clear up. I get fully warmed up and a quick twist of the throttle produces MASSIVE amount of smoke. I look in the airbox and yes, there is oil. Lot of oil. I have not been upside down. I clean it up and block off the case breather tube and try again, and produce smoke again. My diagnosis; I'm bgetting large amounts of compression into the case as well as pulling oil into the cylinder past the rings. Is a compression check my next step? HELP!!! BD

berger · Jan 3, 2005

BD,
What is the history of the bike. Was it smoking before the repair? Why did you have the rocker cover off?

BD · Jan 3, 2005

Hi Berger. MY 02' 400 is a relatively low hour bike, no previous damage or engine work. Original equipment except for rocker roller replacement after about 20-25 hours. I had to replace the cover because I had a bolt come loose and warp the prior cover. The loose bolt buggered the hole so I re-did both right side holes and replaced cover with new. That's it. Never smoked prior. Very little alum. in the oil filter ever. Cam chain sprocket still looks good. Total time on bike is probably less than 30 hours. It's as if I broke a piston ring. I'm gonna try a compression test tonight, but not sure what a "good" reading is, (haven't looked it up yet). I gotta get this thing going or I won't be getting to Moab! BD

berger · Jan 3, 2005

I think I would take it out for one more good ride before tearing into anything. It does not make alot of sense. You didnt overfill it or change oil types did you? Is there a chance somebody dropped it in the shop and the picked it up again? Just a few thoughts. I know if there is debris stuck in the crankcase reed valve you can get alot of blow by, how it got there I dont know.

risky1 · Jan 3, 2005

speakin of smokin'... out riding the other day and let my buddy get on it.. i mean really get on it much harder than i have every done, and i noticed that it it smoking just a bit when he really twists the throttle. had not noticed it before. except when i first start it after it has been sitting for a bit.

so should i get overly concerned? my thought is the rings are going--which I suspect after 50+ hours on the bike. bike runs great though.

berger · Jan 3, 2005

These things are going to smoke alittle between fuel (black smoke) and some light oil consumption (blue). As long as oil consumption is not a problem I say you have no worrys.
I went through the motor on my 470 when it smoked like a mosquito fogger for the first 10 minutes of operation. It would go through a 1/2 quart of oil in 15 miles or about 45 min.. Thats when it was time to pony up the $$.

44014 · Jan 4, 2005

Run synthetic no smoke

What ya cant see wont bother you

BD · Jan 4, 2005

Berger, the bike won't run without being on the choke, and will not rev without dying. Definately too much oil getting into the cylinder. Question is why? It's not coming throught the carb. Would it be this bad if a valve seal were displaced somehow? I keep going back to rings. But why all at once? It ran great prior to my cover removal. No smoking at all. Guess I'll keep looking. I don't mind investing in a set of gaskets to get an inside look at the head and cylinder wall. Any other ideas? The only other thing I had apart before restarting was the cam chain tensioner. Can't imagine that contributing to this problem. BD

nsman · Jan 4, 2005

any chance that the valve timing is out and you have valve and quide damage?you mentioned that you had the cam chain tensioner out....nsman

berger · Jan 4, 2005

I think I would pull the float bowl and see if it is full of oil. What you are describing is like when the bike has been has been tipped over and the oil has run from the motor into the air box. I have had the carb suck so much oil in that the main jet was covered. The bike would smoke bad and would not idle or take throttle until it sucked all of the oil through. It took like 10-15 minutes. I could not even move it off the trail it ran so bad.
If you decide to tear into it I may have an overhaul set in stock I can sell for a reasonable price. I just dont remember what year 400 it is for. I believe it is for post 2000. I will check tonight when i get home.

wildbill · Jan 5, 2005

Ammo give the air box a good cleaning out plus the carb.After that I would vent the breather separate from the air box (that is one of the first things I did for my bike).Your throttle may be jammed some from your close encounter with the ground would be a good idea to check and fix that.I had close to the same thing happen before I vented the breather (thought somebody was going to call the fire dept. :lol: )Don`t for get to check your oil level before you ride.Hope this helps.

Ammo · Jan 5, 2005

thanks for the replies.

and yes, there was enough smoke that I heard a couple different comments concerning calling the FD.

there were a couple folks thought that I had started a grass fire and a couple more were saying 'man, he blew that thing up...'

8O

BD · Jan 5, 2005

Berger, thanks for check ing on the overhaul set for me. I've disconnected the breather tube and am not getting any more oil into the carb, but you are correct, I haven't pulled the bowl off yet to determine if I'm still getting oil from there. Thanks for the advise. I'll try to get back to it tonight. Thanks, BD

husabutt · Jan 5, 2005

I would pull the carb, remove the float bowl and clean it real good with a degreaser like Simple Green and hot water with an old toothbrush. Then blow it dry with compressed air (not to much pressure). Put an automotive expandable freeze plug in the intake boot to seal it off. Wash the inside of the frame backbone with degreaser and flush well. Blow dry.
I do this routine every three trips to the desert along with oil and filter changes, cleaning etc.

The carb slide can be washed on the bike. Be sure to blow dry. Complete carb disassembly is not necessary but it is good practice to take off the "inlet filter cover" and lightly scrub the fuel filter and flush with water. No need to take the filter out as you may damage it. Just be sure to blow dry the carb completely. I spray a light coat of WD40 on the slide and wipe it completely dry with a paper towel. Same goes for the stator after draining the water out .

Oh and don't forget to pull the breather pipe/hose, clean it too. I usually just tape off the opening in the head to prevent water ingress with automotive masking tape.

iceman · Jan 7, 2005

for what it is worth, pull the clutch cover off & check the reed valve at the bottom of the crank.
Cheers ice.

BD · Jan 7, 2005

Thanks guys, I'll be doing all that you suggest that I haven't done yet. Let's hope a tear-down is not necessary. BD

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