Scotts stainless oil filter

Been using them since 01, in my 01 501, and in my 04 550.

I think they're great.

Dale

yeah .. i had one on mine ... but the paper units are cheap and easy

I have been using the Ready Racing Comp Flow on my 07 FE650 for the past couple of months so I don't have much experience yet. I am curious about the best method for cleaning.

nice way to clean stainless mesh filters is in water with a mild degreaser, just need to make sure all degreaser is cleaned off and that its dry.

if you cut open a used quality paper filter and hold it up to the light its very hard to find a spot where you can see through but its easy to see through the mesh filters, dunno how relevant a test that is but a lot of the metal fibres making up the metalic "paste" that is found on the drainplug are a lot smaller than the holes in the wire mesh.

Ive tried to wash a bit of this paste though a paper filter with turps, it won't pass through the paper but it does pass through the stainless ones.

not saying their crap I love the things, just that I'm not so impressed with them apon closer examination. new oil filter every 2 weeks does start to add up and I will probably be using a mesh filter when warranty is over.

regards

Bushie

warranty... what's that?

bushmechanic said:

nice way to clean stainless mesh filters is in water with a mild degreaser, just need to make sure all degreaser is cleaned off and that its dry.

if you cut open a used quality paper filter and hold it up to the light its very hard to find a spot where you can see through but its easy to see through the mesh filters, dunno how relevant a test that is but a lot of the metal fibres making up the metalic "paste" that is found on the drainplug are a lot smaller than the holes in the wire mesh.

Ive tried to wash a bit of this paste though a paper filter with turps, it won't pass through the paper but it does pass through the stainless ones.

not saying their crap I love the things, just that I'm not so impressed with them apon closer examination. new oil filter every 2 weeks does start to add up and I will probably be using a mesh filter when warranty is over.

regards

Bushie

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Please correct me if I'm wrong here........

The metal "paste" or other debris that you see on the drain plug, or for that matter, that you see in the oil when you drain it, is still in the oil, or on the drain plug for a couple of reasons.

#1. The fine mesh filter screen the keeps the larger particles out of the oil pump, which inturn keeps them out of the oil filter. Otherwise these larger particles would ruin the trochoid (sp?) oil pump. The mesh on the oil pump filter screen appears to me at least as fine as the screen in the scotts filter, which is 35 microns abosolute. That means the largest orifice in the Scott's is 35 microns. Is there anyone out there with a comparator that can give us real numbers on the orifice size of the oil pump filter screen, Ragman? A bit of advice, make sure that the O rings on the oil pump filter screen are in good shape and have a snug fit in the engine case, and in the access plug. I replaced both of mine to increase the interferance fit. But, you have to be careful that it's not too tight on the access plug or you will twist the screen. It's also a good idea to put a light coat of grease on the O rings of the filter screen when re-installing after a cleaning.

#2. The magnet on the drain plug grabs the particles before they even make it to the oil pump screen in the first place.

There are a couple of problems with papers filters in respect to the Scott's stainless filter. While it is true that papers filters have smaller pores than the Scott's, they also have much larger holes than the Scott's as well, typically 100 microns +. The second problem is during cold engine start up when the oil is at it's highest viscosity. If for example you are using an oil with a higher Winters number, such as 15W instead of let's say a 5W, the paper filter will not be able to flow the oil, and the oil pressure will rise to a point where it opens the high pressure bleed valve or filter by pass, and the oil will flow from the oil pump to the engine unfiltered. Whereas the Scotts filter does not have this problem on cold start ups.

As far as cleaning the Scott's filter, I use a CRC product called Lectra Motive. It's an electrical parts cleaner that does not appear to damage the synthetic rubber that seals the filter to the filter access cap. It usually takes about a full can to thoroughly clean the filter. I then set my regulator on my air compressor outlet to 20 psi and blow from the inside out. Why 20psi you ask? Because that's about how much pressure the oil pump supplies to the motor. When I clean my filter, I put a few paper towels in the catch pan so I can see what's coming out of the filter. If you see pieces of material bigger than the holes in the filter, then your O rings on your oil pump screen are probably not sealing as well as they should.

Again, if I am incorrect on these assumptions please let me know.

Dale

I use the the PJ1 foam air filter cleaner and water. Does not take a whole can and works good, and does the air filter too. Less is more in my book, stainless filter on its third season and is holding up fine.

Hi Dale,

sounds good, can't really pick holes in anything you say, there's always some buts.

I doubt that all the magnetic particles are grabbed by the magnet. I'll put a big magnet on the oilfilter cover and see what it traps.

While it is true that papers filters have smaller pores than the Scott's, they also have much larger holes than the Scott's as well, typically 100 microns +.

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I read this from the stainless manufaturers too. however after examining a few paper filters I disagree with them. While 100 microns sounds like a very small chinese unit of measurement there are better filters possibly than they use to make this comparison. average 5 maximum 15 is closer i would suggest. I also think that a quality paper filter has more chance of trapping a long slender peice of metal 10 - 20 microns in diameter and say 100 or 300 microns long than the 30 micron mesh. I have found such a piece in a paper filter.

the screen in the gearbox looks to be 100 or 200 microns from memory can measure it next time. I'll measure the stainless mesh filter too, 35 micron absolute may just be the rating they got after testing. a long slender particle 300 microns long could still pass though the stainless mesh in an absolute worst case scenario.

its easy to be misled by propaganda from the filter companies e.g lets all use DNA air filters! in the standard tests a huge ammount of dust is fed into the test machine, there is enough dust to clog the huge holes in the DNA filter and as more dust is collected the filter becomes more effective and passes the test with flying colours while a foam filters capacity to trap dust with tiny oil baths is reached in less than a few seconds, dries out passses dust and so looks worse than the DNA filter on paper. ok its not the same as oil filters but testing and real use are different usually.

the startup thing is a very good point as is increased oil flow in general, while a very old clogged paper filter may casue the valve to open, a new filter provides very little resistance to flow, try tipping some cold oil into one and blow it through from the inside with low pressure air. ok its a lot more restrictive than the mesh filter but I can't see it causing the bypass to open at least not where I live, 20-30 deg C most of the time.

stainless mesh filters are very good, I'm just dissapointed because I thought they were better than paper ones at everything. Obviously some copromises are made by both designs, just wanted to share what I found after cutting open some paper filters.

I'll still use a stainless one. with a big magnet on the cover

regards
Bushie

For cleaning SS filters I expect that something like an ultrasonic cleaner would be the business. I got new one on ebay a few years ago for $50 and its great for some jobs. Cleans up fouled 2 stroke plugs great for example. Also the non servicable needle and seat on my pump motor got blocked and doing the carb in it ended up sorting it along with some butchery.

Some current options here:
http://search.ebay.com.au/search/search ... category0=

If you are using a can of contact cleaner to clean one filter then I suspect that the cost is not much different, not to mention the 'green' impact. I get paper filters in lots of 10 from Ballards here in Oz at $7.50 each. Been using them for years with no problems that I'm aware of.

Steve

I have a stainless steel oil filter from CRT.

They are good and quite cheap (Ebay)

As a follow up,

I spoke with fella's down at Scott's yesterday and found out a couple of other interesting facts.

From their testing, the largest holes in a paper filter are about 300 microns, with stock Honda filters being the worst. The amsoil filters are some fine that they don't flow properly.

The most interesting fact is that the epoxy that Scott's uses to assemble their filters is cured at around 220 degree's F, and is good for 600 degree's F. The "competitions" stainless filters epoxy begins to soften at around 200 degree's. And according to Scott's research, oil temps can reach 300 degree's in a fourstroke motor.

The last bit of info I got was that while their competitions filters filter down to 35 microns, the scott's filter is 35 microns absolute, meaning the largest hole is 35 microns.

i use the same filter all the time. two race seasons or so........

regards

Taffy

thats great info Dale

300 microns is huge! I don't believe it.

I guess some filters could have such a hole due to inconsistencies in the paper and in using paper filters you run the risk of having a big hole.

after cutting up some paper filters as I said I can't believe that there are holes bigger than the stainless filters. It would be great to see some pictures side by side comparison of the two filter mediums showing the holes in a quality paper filter. interesting there are no pictures that I've been able to find. interesting they said "from testing" not measuring.

The big point in favour of the stainless ones is I guess that you can't cut up a paper filter check the holes and then put it in the bike so consistancy is where they win perhaps.

Love the stainless filters but I don't believe the quality paper ones are worse at filtering. engine dammage can occour with particles @ 3 microns so we are perhaps discussing which hurts more; an axe or a sledge hammer.

regards

Bushie

bushmechanic said:

thats great info Dale

300 microns is huge! I don't believe it.

I guess some filters could have such a hole due to inconsistencies in the paper and in using paper filters you run the risk of having a big hole.

after cutting up some paper filters as I said I can't believe that there are holes bigger than the stainless filters. It would be great to see some pictures side by side comparison of the two filter mediums showing the holes in a quality paper filter. interesting there are no pictures that I've been able to find. interesting they said "from testing" not measuring.

The big point in favour of the stainless ones is I guess that you can't cut up a paper filter check the holes and then put it in the bike so consistancy is where they win perhaps.

Love the stainless filters but I don't believe the quality paper ones are worse at filtering. engine dammage can occour with particles @ 3 microns so we are perhaps discussing which hurts more; an axe or a sledge hammer.

regards

Bushie

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Well the ax would be quicker!! LOL!

I was telling the fella's down at Scott's that they should put some of this info in their adds, with pictures, and data to high light this sort of stuff. Apparently the guy who makes them for Scott's is totally into this sort of thing and has done most of this testing.

If you remember when Amsoil first came on the scene they claimed 25,000 miles between oil changes, and they still might, they have a great web site and I encourage everyone to check it out. http://www.amsoil.com/

Anyway, the key to the long change intervals was this high bypass filtration system that was in addition to your regular filter. This filtration system filtered very small particles indeed. http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/bf.aspx

Well, don't want to hi jack this thread, just thought I'd throw some more info out there for everyone.

The am soil link is great, makes you think that not all oil must pass the finest filter every single time through the oil circuit. It makes sense in a way, the small particles will be caught eventually by the filter with the small pores.
Likewise, why would the pores in the standard filter all have to be the same size? Even if there are a few 300 micron holes not all oil will pass these particular holes every time and it will pass the smaller holes eventually. If not on the 1st lap in the oil circuit then perhaps within 2 or 5 laps?
Maybe I'm wrong, but if filters had passages all the same size maybe they woud not be as good, they'd either not flow as well or they would not filter as well. Does anyone know?

Regards

I'll still use a stainless one. with a big magnet on the cover Very Happy

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Hi Bushi,

you mention the magnet, where is it located exactly ?
Is it selfmade-solution or from a company?
Could you maybe post a pic with some particles on the magnet?

Peter

Hi Bushi,

you mention the magnet, where is it located exactly ?
Is it selfmade-solution or from a company?
Could you maybe post a pic with some particles on the magnet?

Peter

Click to expand...

Hi peter,

I'm using the paper filters. no magnet yet its just an idea. I will most definately post pics of the particles if there are any. and do a comparison between the two filters, will be in october. Ill try and take a pic of the two mediums showing the hole sizes too.

if you were to use a magnet it would go on the outside of the oil filter cover. if it was a very strong one could it perhaps dammage the magnets in the stator? its quite close. sparks?

smorgy makes a good point. there is no chance perhaps for the stainless filter to catch particles under say 20 microns because its holes are all 35 microns. the paper filter will catch a great deal but not all of these particles down to about 4 or 5 microns I suggest. remeber I did a test of washing the paste through the two filters. paper wins on the small stuff.

the few larger holes, no bigger than 30 microns that I have found even say 100 microns do not see all the oil all of the time but the stainless filters holes are all 35 microns and so this is the smallest size of hole that the oil sees.

I would like to know the details of the standard testing.

I think it does not matter which filter is used in the Husabergs. its not going to double the life of the mains or the timing chain or the cam followers even if we put a sub micronic filter in. but its all very interesting. axe or hammer?

regards

Bushie