Removing the counter balancer

deaks · Nov 26, 2004

Hi everyone

My trusty little 470 Berg (engine) is at my local dealers (Gary Grover Racing) for a bottom end rebuild as the mains had started to go.

I race supermoto and really like the way the power is delivered as it revs and just keeps on revving.

While the engine is apart I thought it might be an idea to remove the counterbalancer to help the revs build quicker, so the engine comes up on the cam quicker.

Has anyone here done it, and how did you find it afterwards?

Thanks

Deaks

mikst · Nov 26, 2004

I think LINEAWEAVER has some experience.

JoeUSA · Nov 26, 2004

I'm having the crank in my new 04 550 done by Dale before I even ride it.

Joe

Simon · Nov 26, 2004

Deaks,

You're welcome to test ride my 650 that has no balancer weight in it.

Let me know when you are next going to Gary's and I can either meet you there or you're welcome to drop by my place and take it for a spin.

Cheers,
Simon

PowerFiend · Nov 26, 2004

JoeUSA said:
I'm having the crank in my new 04 550 done by Dale before I even ride it.

Joe

I thought that the 04-05's had improved oiling for the counterbalancer? Has it proven to still be an issue?

JoeUSA · Nov 27, 2004

PowerFiend said:
JoeUSA said:

I'm having the crank in my new 04 550 done by Dale before I even ride it.

Joe

Click to expand...

I thought that the 04-05's had improved oiling for the counterbalancer? Has it proven to still be an issue?

No, not that I am aware of. I ride desert and do not need/want the additional failure modes with me, so I am having it removed before I ride it. This decision was made along with the decision to install a Lineaweaver LRX2 cam when I decided to buy the bike. I have been using the same cam grind in my 501 and couldn't be any happier.

Time will tell.

Joe

dsducati · Nov 29, 2004

When the balancer is removed the secondary shaft remains, and due to possible misalignment of the 2 bearings(one is in the clutch cover) many have expressed statements regarding the questionable reliability of the secondary shaft. The one failure I have seen among my circle of riding friends was indeed the secondary shaft bearings, not the balancer bearings. 05 models have an additional oiling hole to spray the secondary bearings, earlier models do not. Not sure how much this helps. Does removing the balancer somehow extend the secondary shaft bearings, or is there still one weak link compared to a pre 2001 motor?
Dan
PS A fellow member stated 01-03 models had oil pressure to the rockers and 04 up are like pre 2001 models and do not. Is this true, and if so was this done to allow extra oil for balancer/secondary shaft spray holes?

70marlin · Nov 29, 2004

Has anyone a pic or could take a pic of this new oil hole for the secondary bearing? could the pre 05 motors have this done to them. Thus extending the secondary bearing bearing life?

ypvs · Nov 29, 2004

Simon said:
Deaks,

You're welcome to test ride my 650 that has no balancer weight in it.

Let me know when you are next going to Gary's and I can either meet you there or you're welcome to drop by my place and take it for a spin.

Cheers,
Simon

Simon,

Your engine has the counter balancer out you say. Nothing else changed but just the balancer taken out?

What changes did you get in how the engine behaves? Throttle respons, power and vibrations primarily...

Daniel

LINEAWEAVER · Nov 29, 2004

dsducati said:
When the balancer is removed the secondary shaft remains, and due to possible misalignment of the 2 bearings(one is in the clutch cover) many have expressed statements regarding the questionable reliability of the secondary shaft. The one failure I have seen among my circle of riding friends was indeed the secondary shaft bearings, not the balancer bearings. 05 models have an additional oiling hole to spray the secondary bearings, earlier models do not. Not sure how much this helps. Does removing the balancer somehow extend the secondary shaft bearings, or is there still one weak link compared to a pre 2001 motor?
Dan
PS A fellow member stated 01-03 models had oil pressure to the rockers and 04 up are like pre 2001 models and do not. Is this true, and if so was this done to allow extra oil for balancer/secondary shaft spray holes?

The auxiliary shaft bearing life is enhanced as the oscillating load from the balance unit is eliminated.

04 and later engines do indeed rely upon splash lubrication for the top end. Pressure lubrication of the 2001 - 2003 top end proved to be of no advantage.

Regards,
Dale

Simon · Nov 29, 2004

ypvs said:
Simon,

Your engine has the counter balancer out you say. Nothing else changed but just the balancer taken out?

What changes did you get in how the engine behaves? Throttle respons, power and vibrations primarily...

Daniel

Daniel,

I also have an LRX2 camshaft installed and I've got to say that from the couple of test rides I've done in this configuration it's seriously impressive.

I have now tried the engine in various configurations with different balance weights and different crankshaft balance factors and these balance factors are really the determinent features for the vibration. In my opinion, the benefits of removed counter balancer outweigh the negatives - when riding, vibrations really aren't an issue.

As for experience with removal of counter balancer with no other changes, the primary difference I noticed was better engine pickup (more fine control possible on the throttle also).

Cheers,
Simon

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Removing the counter balancer

deaks

mikst

JoeUSA

Simon

PowerFiend

JoeUSA

dsducati

70marlin

ypvs

LINEAWEAVER

Simon

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