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Rear springs, sag, availability and prices...

Joined Dec 2005
49 Posts | 0+
Republic of Vancouver Island, Canuckistan
Carrying on from my post and information receivedHERE and with the benefit of the WP spring chart found on this site:

WP_RearSpringList.jpg


... it appears I need the 97-250 spring (part number 9121.0008) for my 97kgs of mass. I presume that the weight's they're suggesting are net of gear because at a rough guess my gear (full leathers, lid, boots etc) must be another 15kgs? That would put me into a whole nother spring rate again -and one that's apparently not listed. Being a cheap/poor bastard I only want to do this once, so want to be sure I'm getting it right.

Checking with my local 'berg dealer it looks like the spring is going to cost about $240CAD ($215USD, or 116GBP), and I'm waiting still to find out how long it'll take to get here. This seems like a lot of money to me for something as simple as a spring. Can anyone else suggest whom else I might look to as a supplier - preferably in Canada or the NW US?

In the meantime, with regards to making-do with my stock spring (88-250) - should I try to acheive correct rider sag at the expense of eliminating static sag? Or should I only wind it up as far as I still have some static sag? Riding is shorted paved circuit and our local motard track which is paved with an MX section - large-ish (to me anyhow) jumps, table, whoops and berms with a <1m ramp on the straight. As mentioned I'm about 97Kg (215lbs) nekkid, and about 1.93M (6'4") - and, no that's not a personal ad before anyone asks ;) Bike is an '05 FS650E.

Right now I bottom pretty hard - I'm sure some of that has to do with "technique" (if the word at all applies to what I do), but my back tire is also all over ther muffler just riding around sweepers (highway cloverleafs, or the turn at the end of the speedway) at a relatively moderate pace. The bike wants to run wide (I presume a result of it squatting so much at the back end) and I have to crank it over fairly far to track anywhere close to a decent line -to the point where the front-end will tuck slightly.

As suggested by Brian in the other thread - I'm actually sitting fairly far forward - definitely over the tank, but with a few inches of seat still to go before I'm actually riding the gas cap.

For fun I tried taking the sweeper at the speedway sportbike-style - hanging off with the knee on the deck. Without the benefit of the stopwatch or being able to see my speedo I can't say I was definitely faster, but it felt faster and the bike was more composed (likely more vertical as well). I think I was able to hold the line a bit better as well -but this may just be a case of me just being more accustomed to the position and willing to push the bike a bit harder - it's a much shorter trip to the pavement when you already have a knee on the ground :D
 
Funny I typed "cheap/poor b@stard" and it replaced b@stard with "toughie". Not that it's my place to determine forum rules but are proper english words censored?

Anyhow, I don't know what a "toughie" is but for the record I didn't refer to myself as such.
 
CheGuevara said:
Funny I typed "cheap/poor b@stard" and it replaced b@stard with "toughie". Not that it's my place to determine forum rules but are proper english words censored?

Anyhow, I don't know what a "toughie" is but for the record I didn't refer to myself as such.

You need to buy the Taffy/Bobzilla dicktanary! :twisted:

If you were from the land of daughterwives or where is is ok to smoke a **** you would know that a Toughie is a child with out the benifit of married parents. :D
tis really quite simple ol chap :p

as to your question of springs most any web based supermeggalowmart type bike supply should be able to provide the needed spring for around $125. I think I paid less but some where around there. just go to race tech and find the price and the low buck places will beat that for sure.
On the other hand someone here may have one for real cheap.
 
Bob - thanks for the edjumacashun. I will ask my girlfriend (from Northampton) is she considers me a "toughie".

As for the spring - if I'm sourcing it from other than WP, if I'm reading the chart right I'm looking for a straight-rate (non-progressive) 97N/mm spring, 250mm uncompressed length and the 62 is... OD of the spring?

Cheers,
-Mike
 
you need to set a race sag.

what have you got? and the year?

i've done a lot on enduro suspension and the answers are all there in 'the doc'. can't see the problem myself?

as for the chart, it's dodgy! i don't go by that and most who have tried things PRACTICAL for themselves don't either.

just for the record. i weigh 205 naked and run 85/111 rear and 48s up front. the rear spring is still too soft and the lads on k-talk would be on 96-100 for your weight.

good luck

Taffy
 
Taf -the bike is (as noted above) an '05 FS650E.

The Doc is where I linked thru to the chart from. Directly in the document it gives PDs spring codes and rates -for progressive springs. Mine (stock) is an 88-250 so I presume this to mean straight-rate.

While I haven't measured my preload currently, I've wound it up 2 full turns from stock - I have virtually no static sag and I still believe it's far too much rider sag (as I mentioned I get tire rub well up the muffler just on highway on-ramps). Plus it bottoms over jumps (I actually managed to tear out the catch-can last outing over the ramp on the speedway front straight).


If by "practical" you mean trial and error -well I really haven't got the financial resources to buy a replacement spring more than once. I agree that learning by doing is the best route, but I don't want to learn that I made the wrong choice and not be able to correct it until next year. Besides -there should be one single spring that will put me closest to optimal sag figures (85-90mm is what I took from the previous post I made - re: First Race)

You say 96-100, and I presume you mean a progessive rate spring with a 98 median. The 97 I mentioned is certainly in that range, but are you suggesting I try a progressive rate over the straight rate?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to tell me?

I've read as much of the Handling and Suspension sections as I could find that was relevant. I'm a bit confused on the PDS/progressive spring thing (are these for the older bikes?) vs the apparent straigh-rate spring I believe I have.

I could type a bit more right now but I have to go watch Edmonton demolish Carolina in game 7 of the cup. :D :D
 
Che, *********** is mostly owned by KTM. In the old days, we got Ohlins on KTMs and Bergs. KTM has tried straight rate and progressive springs on various applications, trying to make this linkageless rear (PDS) thing work as well as an Ohlins with linkage. Has not happened. For proof, ride a new GasGas 250-300 and enjoy the best rear suspension you can get. Anyhow, I have a PDS4 spring on my late model Berg, I love it! It is a progressive, 85-110 approx, was a stock spring on a late model KTM with PDS shock. Correct diameter and length are just bonuses you have to endure. Makes sense when you consider that the shocks damping is progresive as well, to make up for not having a linkage. By the way, I weigh 205 lbs naked with beer bottle (pale ale) in hand. Experimenting can get expensive unless you can find a KTM racer with lots of spares , willing to let you try out a few of his springs, as I did (I fed him lots of pale ale!).Best of luck! Buzzard
ps I just checked eBay, looked under KTM spring, found an 84-250 for $85.00.
 
yeh and it's all muscle! :D :D

the progressive springs are essentially the first code number and only become the second code when becoming coil bound. i and buzzard run PDS4 progressives and they are essentially an 85 spring initially.

when i said 96-100 i meant get a straight rate in that region, be it 96 or 98 or 100. BUT i didn't look close enough to see that it was for SM.

i don't know what to say except that you need to be right up near 100 IMHO?

regards

Taffy
 
Thanks guys - I'll make some calls and see what's available - I've been tipped off to MX-Tech in the US and they seem to sell a variety of springs for the shock.

In the meantime I'm going to try and add a little more preload - I've also raised the forks up in the triples by about 5mm (had 6mm from top of the triple to top of the fork-cap, now at 11mm) - if it's not raining I'll see what that does for me on Weds eve practise.
 

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