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POOR STARTING AND RUNNING

M

MRMAGOO

Joined Jan 2007
14 Posts | 0+
DEAR SIRS AS THIS IS ONLY MY SECOND CRY FOR HELP I DO LOG ON TO THE SITE EVERY DAY. I HAVE A 2003 650 FS THE VALVES HAVE BEEN SET SPOT ON TO THE OWNERS DOC, BUT THE BIKE STILL RUNS AND STARTS VERY POOR I CAN SPEND ANYTHING UPTO 30 MINS TRYING TO START IT FROM COLD CHOKE ON AND NO THROTTLE IT DOESNT EVEN TRY SO I BACK THE IDLE SCREW ALL THE WAY OFF SO THE SLIDE DOES NOT TOUCH IT AND IT FIRES FIRST TIME EVERY TIME.
I THEN SCREW THE IDLE BACK IN TO UP THE REVS IT WILL THEN RUN FINE AND AFTER ABOUT 5 MINS IT WILL START EVERY KICK IT ALSO SEEMS VERY FLAT IN SECOND GEAR I DONT NO IF THIS IS A CARB PROBLEM ( DELLORTO) AND I SHOULD UPGRADE TO A KEIHIN TYPE CARB( WOT MODELS WILL FIT AND OFF WOT BIKES) I ALSO READ THAT A MIKUNI WILL FIT IS THIS THE TYPE FITTED TO THE KTM LC4 ANY HELP WOULD BE GREAT. THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME TO READ MY QUESTION( ANY ADVISE WOULD BE GREAT)
 
i have a 650 fe it wouldnt start for toffee striped and rebuilt carb all new parts.still no go.then read a bit on ignition timeing and the dead stop method of finding the true tdc of the engine.did this and now starts first go hot or cold.also check the stator and read the owners docs and the hard start guide.if u need moor info on the dead stop method email me and ill fill u in
 
THANKS FOR THE REPLY I STRIPPED THE ROCKER OFF THE BIKE TO TAKE A LOOK.I NOTICED THAT THE CAM LOABS WERE NOT IN THE CORRECT POSITION ON CLOSER EXAMINATION THE CAM CHAIN IS JUST FLOATING AROUND AND THE NYLON CAM TENSIONER GUIDE AS GOT LOTS OF PLAY BETWEEN IT AND THE SPRING LOADED TENSIONER IN FACT IT DOESNT EVEN TOUCH IT.
WHEN YOU PUT TENSION ON THE CHAIN WITH YOUR FINGER IT MOVES THE CAM QUIET A WAY.I THINK THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH THE STARTING, THUS THE CAM TIMEING IS SLIGHTLY OUT BECAUSE THE GUIDE AND THE CHAIN ARE WORN . HAS ANYBODY ELSE ENCOUNTED THIS PROBLEM.
 
yes thats enugh to do it get a new cam chain and tensioner make sure u download the manual from the download section and take your time.get all parts needed before u start and lay everything out u take off in order so reinstalation is easy.dont rush the job.you can get the parts from dave clarke racing tel 01772612118 they are in preston and verry good ask for alex hell put you in the right direction.email address www.daveclarkeracing.com
 
MRMAGOO,
I HAD ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME PROBLEM WITH MY FX470E, THE LOW SPEED JET WAS CLOGGED. I WOULD CLEAN THE CARB BEFORE I BOUGHT NEW CAM, CHAIN AND TENSIONERS. MY 470 HAS LOTS OF PLAY ( BUT IS STILL WELL WITHIN SPEC)

HEATH
 
THANKS FOR THE ADVISE BUT THE CHAIN IS SHOT TO BITS THE CAM WHEEL HAS ABOUT 3MM MOVMENT EITHER WAY, THE AUTO DECOMP DOESNT EVEN TOUCH THE EXHAUST VALVES BEARING, THE CHAIN TENSIONER PAW DOESNT EVEN TOUCH THE SPRING LOADED TENSIONER AND THUS THIS IS WHY THE CHAIN IS SO SLACK CAUSING THE CAM TIMING TO BE OUT.
 
Mr Magoo

so you only wanna talk when you're in the sheeyut hey! tart!

just going by your starting description you havbe too small a choke jet. get one about 4-5 up so from 66 go to 72 etc.

upgrade to the later tensioner blade, remove the alloy knob from the tensioner, new decomp lobe, camwheel in steel, if you need a later cam: a later tensioner goes with it. get rocker follower bearings as well as cambearings. they take a hiding here...

wesh - tell us a bit more about what you did? i think you're only the second person to go through this that i know of!

regards

Taffy
 
taffy will get some photos and do a step by step guide to what tools i made and how to make them.i am going to rebuild the complete motor later this year so can give a good in depth list.it still has its hard days but will start after a few kicks.
 
what i mean is: what did you find when you marked the flywheel etc? how far did you move the ignition?

regards

Taffy
 
sorry taffy found the true tdc to be 6 degrees past the last mark on the flywheel once i static timed the ignition to the new mark, power and starting became alot easeyer.havent put a stobe light on it yet but will soon.i want to rebuild the engine first and make sure all wear on the cam chain and tensioner are eliminated and cam loabes are in good condition.most of my problem now is the stator the readings are just about within the limit so its off to sparks in april for a rewind then all will be ok.
 
Hi Taffy,

Do you find factory jetting is not what it should be and there is a lot of room for maneuver on the Dellorto?.
One of my previous posts I mentioned about the Dellorto fitted to the Sherco 4t that I dynoed and rejetted, you could of grabbed a handful of jets from a bucket and still made it run better than what was in as standard.
Reading the TMX last week they have relaunched it, will be interesting to see what changes they have made. Must say I had tongue in cheek on most of what I read, and a big farm yard smell.
Bye the way I have had second thoughts about the FS400 2002, I think I'll see if my pocket can go a bit deeper possibly an 03 or 04 and something with a bit more HP.

Regards

Sparks
 
sparks

i found it very difficult to jet up. i had been spoilt on my WR400 for two years and the keihin. there was a clear line betwwen pilot, needle and main. however i couldn't get the same results with the dell orto.

i think the factory let itself down by selling the carb and not getting the jetting right. by that i mean the drilling of airways etc and the stuff that you see in the doc that was reported here by lineaweaver. if you ever want to take the risk with a carb, do the mods that joeusa mentions in the link from the doc.

my thoughts entirely on the 400. reckon you'll end up with an '04 450 FE yet.

regards

Taffy
 
How about a FE550 2004 £1800, I know it's an FE not FS but at least it gets me into the new type breed of Husabergs. The rims can come later.

Regards

Steve.
 
i didn't realise you wanted a road based bike? definately a brilliant bike! go get it!

there are supermoto wheels coming up all the time on ebay.

regards

Taffy
 
SORRY TAFFY DIDNT MEAN TO OFFEND ANYONE BY ONLY ASKING QUESTION WHEN UP **** CREEK.
I TEND TO FEEL A BIT INTIMDATED ASKING STUPID QUESTIONS.
I PUT THE NEW CHAIN IN TENSIONERS AND GUIDE CLEANED ALL THE JETS OUT IN THE CARB BUT STILL VERY HARD TO START. ANY ADVICE WOULD BE GREAT THANK YOU.
 
try this starting sequence.step 1 ignition on if you have one pull the decomp leaver in open throttle fully and kick through 5 or 6 times.step 2 close throttle open choke and kick twice as if you were trying to start it. step 3 turn choke off,slowly move the kick start down until you feel the compretion build up then slightly pull the decomp leaver in and release again now get it just past top dead return the kick start back to the top then give it a good kick and follow it wright through.if you have an auto decomp just kick it 3 times.if it doesnt start go back to the begining and start the steps again.
 
wesh

i need the full SP on starting, running, response THE LOT. come on, spill the beans!

it's just that i've been rattling on about this timing issue for three or four years and never had any takers. rather like my time at TT it takes two or three brave souls to say "it works!" and then the flood gates open. might even be a trickle....!

mrmagoo - i have no malice or issues. sometimes i just get fed up and it comes out wrong.

regards

Taffy
 
THATS COOL MATE NO PROBLEMS TOOK THE BIKE TO WORK AND GOT A MATE TO SET IT UP ON THE GAS ANALIZER TO GET THE MIXTURE CORRECT, WILL ALTERING THE STATOR POSITION MAKE ANY DIFFRENCE, I MARKED THE FLYWHEEL WITH SOME PAINT AND ATTEMPTED TO USE A TIMING LIGHT,WHEN I TOOK THE COVER OFF I NOTICED IT WAS ADJUSTED ALL ONE WAY.
 

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