Help Support Husaberg:
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2004
- Messages
- 363
- Location
- USA
My limited experience:
Husky rollers will fit where 8mm pressed roller pins are used:
1615 04501
as far as rockers, their bushings, and pivot shafts the local Husky dealer was useless, since he didn't have any to compare.
The KTM RFS exhaust rocker pivot shafts are the same size, but do not have the oiling holes or aluminum plugs: 59036057000 ...Still trying to verify how they are oiled, maybe a needle bearing instead of a bushing is used. And I believe the exhaust rocker may work, but it is speculation. (I haven't showed up at the KTM dealer when a motor was apart yet. :wink: ) These would be one offs and not straight bolt ins though, since the oiling would have to be figured out.
KTM cam: Everything on the lobe side of the cam gear is identically placed to my 2002 cam, but everything on the opposite side is 2mm off. The wide centering hole that matches the width of the aluminum cam gear is designed out and matches the thinner steel gear moving the decompressor 2mm closer and also the bearing 2mm closer. You could potentially use the shorter KTM decompressor, the newer steel gear, and shorter KTM bolts, but the bearing now only has minimal seat contact by the plug(and a 2mm space to fill to the plug). And of course you would have to cut off the waterpump drive (All in relation to post 2000 motor...maybe not the 2004 though :?: ). Since the cam steps down at the water pump drive moving the bearing out further and putting a shim in between the bearing and decompressor is not an option. Also the KTM's use 35/30 valve combo, so performance cams are not geared to the flow of the 37/30 combo in the larger bergs. ie. Stay stock, or go with a Linneaweaver or G3 cam.
KTM cam chains are a smaller series chain, cam sprocket that match and are the wrong, 36 , tooth count.
2000 KTM clutch basket bushing works(59032016100) and so do the support washers on either side of it(59032017000). Of note the bushing part listed is an updated two piece side by side, instead of the old one piece. The newer bergs with the needle bearings are also two instead of one wide bearing.
The little manual decompressor circlip that holds it in the head is shared with KTM's.
KTM cam bearings are identical, but are NTN taiwanese brand 6201's with dual seals. Based off some of the bearing numbers(ex. KTM will list 6201/C3 in description) many of the major bearings also cross over. I believe two of the trannies needle bearing sizes also cross over. I'm going to a bearing supply house though for my bearings, since I can't really on KTM/Berg sending me SKF's.
That's all I have so far.
Husky rollers will fit where 8mm pressed roller pins are used:
1615 04501
as far as rockers, their bushings, and pivot shafts the local Husky dealer was useless, since he didn't have any to compare.
The KTM RFS exhaust rocker pivot shafts are the same size, but do not have the oiling holes or aluminum plugs: 59036057000 ...Still trying to verify how they are oiled, maybe a needle bearing instead of a bushing is used. And I believe the exhaust rocker may work, but it is speculation. (I haven't showed up at the KTM dealer when a motor was apart yet. :wink: ) These would be one offs and not straight bolt ins though, since the oiling would have to be figured out.
KTM cam: Everything on the lobe side of the cam gear is identically placed to my 2002 cam, but everything on the opposite side is 2mm off. The wide centering hole that matches the width of the aluminum cam gear is designed out and matches the thinner steel gear moving the decompressor 2mm closer and also the bearing 2mm closer. You could potentially use the shorter KTM decompressor, the newer steel gear, and shorter KTM bolts, but the bearing now only has minimal seat contact by the plug(and a 2mm space to fill to the plug). And of course you would have to cut off the waterpump drive (All in relation to post 2000 motor...maybe not the 2004 though :?: ). Since the cam steps down at the water pump drive moving the bearing out further and putting a shim in between the bearing and decompressor is not an option. Also the KTM's use 35/30 valve combo, so performance cams are not geared to the flow of the 37/30 combo in the larger bergs. ie. Stay stock, or go with a Linneaweaver or G3 cam.
KTM cam chains are a smaller series chain, cam sprocket that match and are the wrong, 36 , tooth count.
2000 KTM clutch basket bushing works(59032016100) and so do the support washers on either side of it(59032017000). Of note the bushing part listed is an updated two piece side by side, instead of the old one piece. The newer bergs with the needle bearings are also two instead of one wide bearing.
The little manual decompressor circlip that holds it in the head is shared with KTM's.
KTM cam bearings are identical, but are NTN taiwanese brand 6201's with dual seals. Based off some of the bearing numbers(ex. KTM will list 6201/C3 in description) many of the major bearings also cross over. I believe two of the trannies needle bearing sizes also cross over. I'm going to a bearing supply house though for my bearings, since I can't really on KTM/Berg sending me SKF's.
That's all I have so far.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2004
- Messages
- 363
- Location
- USA
LINEAWEAVER said:
Dale what's the price difference for the Ti valves, and new valve seats? In your racing efforts have they proven to be beneficial over the Stainless, and how is their lifespan in comparison?
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2001
- Messages
- 3,249
- Location
- El Sobrante, Ca. 94803
Hi Powerfiend,
Titanium valves have proven reliable (from a racing point of view) even using OEM seats (which I do not reccommend) providing valve deceleration is not excessive.
From a long term reliability standpoint Stainless is superior.
Best Regards,
Dale
Titanium valves have proven reliable (from a racing point of view) even using OEM seats (which I do not reccommend) providing valve deceleration is not excessive.
From a long term reliability standpoint Stainless is superior.
Best Regards,
Dale
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2001
- Messages
- 17,028
- Location
- Ely, England
powerfiend
theres a lot there but not a lot we can use that is concrete!
it would appear the cam follower bearings are the same as husky's but is there a saving in money by doing this otherwise it ain't progress!
the rest is speculation. i would think that the KTM 450 SX has a particularly evil cam in it. both sessions last sunday week i got overtaken by such a machine between two corners just 50 yards apart. THAT'S POWER!
metal can always be removed powerfiend and the decomp arm is piffle. so that aside, do you think as part of the 'tuning' it would be possible to fit a ktm cam?
i'm aware of the smaller exhaust valves in the husey 400 (35 and 27) as opposed to katooms 35 and 30. this will naturally aid torque for the husey but if the cam produces plenty of torque the tiny exhaust valves are strangling the engine.
at 8mm difference in size, i suspect that those 27's should be 28's or 29's at least. however only a flow engineer can say.
what did the camshaft flanks look like? husey like '8' or 'grape'?
i can't put much of this on the sheet unfortunately. but thanks and when you know more let me know and i'll encompass it and credit you with finding it.
Taffy
theres a lot there but not a lot we can use that is concrete!
it would appear the cam follower bearings are the same as husky's but is there a saving in money by doing this otherwise it ain't progress!
the rest is speculation. i would think that the KTM 450 SX has a particularly evil cam in it. both sessions last sunday week i got overtaken by such a machine between two corners just 50 yards apart. THAT'S POWER!
metal can always be removed powerfiend and the decomp arm is piffle. so that aside, do you think as part of the 'tuning' it would be possible to fit a ktm cam?
i'm aware of the smaller exhaust valves in the husey 400 (35 and 27) as opposed to katooms 35 and 30. this will naturally aid torque for the husey but if the cam produces plenty of torque the tiny exhaust valves are strangling the engine.
at 8mm difference in size, i suspect that those 27's should be 28's or 29's at least. however only a flow engineer can say.
what did the camshaft flanks look like? husey like '8' or 'grape'?
i can't put much of this on the sheet unfortunately. but thanks and when you know more let me know and i'll encompass it and credit you with finding it.
Taffy
materials grades
Sorry Taffy, but I've got questions for Dale that others might want to see the answers to, (or not);
What grade of stainless is desired for the valves? Does 314 have sufficient heat resistance?
Which tool steel are you using on the adjusters, and how hard are you taking them? I have utilized S7 for in-head components in the past and it seems to work well at HRC 56.
What is the best material you have used for the valve seats? Sorry, I'm into metal.
Taffy, the Scotts stainless oil filter seems to work well on my 400. The LAST oil filter I've bought.
Thanks, BD
Sorry Taffy, but I've got questions for Dale that others might want to see the answers to, (or not);
What grade of stainless is desired for the valves? Does 314 have sufficient heat resistance?
Which tool steel are you using on the adjusters, and how hard are you taking them? I have utilized S7 for in-head components in the past and it seems to work well at HRC 56.
What is the best material you have used for the valve seats? Sorry, I'm into metal.
Taffy, the Scotts stainless oil filter seems to work well on my 400. The LAST oil filter I've bought.
Thanks, BD
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2001
- Messages
- 3,249
- Location
- El Sobrante, Ca. 94803
Hi BD,
Valves:
Depending upon application and availability:
EV8, EV8-Z18, EV4-N12 and VV54 / EV16.
Lash Ccaps:
Not 100% certain of the exact lash cap and / or tappet alloy as they are off the shelf items from APE and Honda.
Valve Seats:
Nickel Aluminum Bronze alloy.
Best Regards,
Dale
Valves:
Depending upon application and availability:
EV8, EV8-Z18, EV4-N12 and VV54 / EV16.
Lash Ccaps:
Not 100% certain of the exact lash cap and / or tappet alloy as they are off the shelf items from APE and Honda.
Valve Seats:
Nickel Aluminum Bronze alloy.
Best Regards,
Dale
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2004
- Messages
- 363
- Location
- USA
Taffy said:
I understand, but stated my findings so others would not go down the same path and waste time.
Taffy said:
They did run about $10 US cheaper when I bought mine, and JoeUSA reported in old lost posts " I got 50% longer life out of the Husqvqrna roller brg."
Taffy said:
The 450's came with two grind cams, numbers liberated from a ktm site:
5521 Intake - 232 dur@1mm Exhaust - 222 dur@1mm
5521 Intake 8.56mm total lift 320 [email protected] 220 [email protected] 138 [email protected]
5521 Exhaust 8.41mm total lift 308 [email protected] 208 [email protected] 130 [email protected]
8/06 Intake - 246 dur@1mm Exhaust - 240 dur@1mm (Early 03)
8/06 Intake 9.12mm total lift 338 [email protected] 234 [email protected] 150 [email protected]
8/06 Exhaust 8.89mm total lift 320 [email protected] 228 [email protected] 146 [email protected]
Taffy said:
Metal needs to be added. There is a possibility to weld or press a spacer on the end of the water pump shaft to add the 2mm bearing surface needed(prior to cutting the excess shaft off), and then add a 2mm spacer between the decompressor and the bearing.
See below where the KTM cam is 2mm thinner.
Taffy said:
From what I have seen the KTM's run a more agressive cam intake lobe profile(compared to exhaust), so maybe the Berg's valves are closer to an ideal intake to exhaust ratio.
Taffy said:
Not quite sure I'm understanding flanks, but if you mean the lobe profile, then: I was comparing to a borrowed aftermarket grind and they don't dip in like the stock Berg lobes.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2001
- Messages
- 17,028
- Location
- Ely, England
thanks powerfiend. comprehensive stuff and now well understood. the cam lifts of the husey are just under 10mm but that is only half the story...
check out dale's gallery and you'll see a graph of the cam lifts. 40 thou = 1mm and they top out at just under 10mm
regards
Taffy
check out dale's gallery and you'll see a graph of the cam lifts. 40 thou = 1mm and they top out at just under 10mm
regards
Taffy
The Taffffffmiester!!!!!!
OK, the things I've done to my Berg MAY not be to everyones liking BUT they have worked for me!
Keihin FCR 39 carby> excellent mod, starts easier(mostly) wicked power.
Home made "hot-start"> drilled and tapped a thread into the left side of the carby inlet and plumbed with 3.5mm tubing to the handle bars to an inline water tap?
[color=] [/color]
Ufo twin headlight.
[color=] [/color]CBR 600 F4 starter motor> this has the same spline as the Berg, can be purchased much cheaper( second hand), although the 04 Berg 550/650 which is $500 Aust with bracket will fix fix the starting woes, I have gone for the cheaper alternative with an extra battery and NOW I start my bike on 24 volts and NOW NO PROBS starting!
[color=] [/color]Rush a/filter> this is brilliant. I have tried the DT brand and it is ****! Bad fit, and just cheap rubbish.
[color=] [/color]Pirelli H/duty tubes> the best you can buy! I've been riding for 3.5 years now with my brothers whom all use the same tubes, and we ride in some pretty harsh conditions and NOT ONE puncture!!!!!!!!!!
Like I said I dont expect everyone out there to copy me? But they work for my probs.
OK, the things I've done to my Berg MAY not be to everyones liking BUT they have worked for me!
Keihin FCR 39 carby> excellent mod, starts easier(mostly) wicked power.
Home made "hot-start"> drilled and tapped a thread into the left side of the carby inlet and plumbed with 3.5mm tubing to the handle bars to an inline water tap?
[color=] [/color]
Ufo twin headlight.
[color=] [/color]CBR 600 F4 starter motor> this has the same spline as the Berg, can be purchased much cheaper( second hand), although the 04 Berg 550/650 which is $500 Aust with bracket will fix fix the starting woes, I have gone for the cheaper alternative with an extra battery and NOW I start my bike on 24 volts and NOW NO PROBS starting!
[color=] [/color]Rush a/filter> this is brilliant. I have tried the DT brand and it is ****! Bad fit, and just cheap rubbish.
[color=] [/color]Pirelli H/duty tubes> the best you can buy! I've been riding for 3.5 years now with my brothers whom all use the same tubes, and we ride in some pretty harsh conditions and NOT ONE puncture!!!!!!!!!!
Like I said I dont expect everyone out there to copy me? But they work for my probs.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2001
- Messages
- 17,028
- Location
- Ely, England
scully
i will definately write out the bit about the starter motor. that sounds like a money saving idea and answer to a problem that may worsen with age.
as said to you before though scully. you don't have 24 volts, you have 12. but you have doubled your ampage. i'm poor at electrics but that much i do know.
again as discussed with your PM i will mention the 'hot start' and it's just the kind of thing that if we can get agreement on jetting, will show conclusively as a good idea.
anyone else back-up scully's hot start?
i'm awaiting a move from schwim now with the document being made available to you the public. please remember it's long but details are brief. what i'm hoping is that there will be hyperlinks all over it feeding to the best articles to cover that subject. that's why you'll often see me doing to death one subject in one thread and not starting a whole new one just because it goes a little off line. a comprehensive thread covering a subject is ideal.
my work with the 53 cam, cam timing (and ****-ups!) will come to a head this weekend at the 2nd banovallum of the season.
i practiced at the weekend and at low revs the husey was just like the KTM 400 my mate let me ride 24 months ago. it had a lot of torque to pull a higher gear, something you can't do with the husey 400. i remember clearly that katoom ride. i went up a table top and as i got near the top on the husey the engine would die and i'd pop onto the top nicely.
i did the same on this husey this week and the front wheel just kept climbing as it hooked hard all the way up the face of the table top. so i feel the husey is becoming the ktm 400 exc of just 24 months ago.
it has the FC exhaust and it has the new keihin so the spec is good. i don't know what FC400c stands for though? this is the only 400 that came with the '53' cam? so what's a FC400 and a FC400c?
Taffy
i will definately write out the bit about the starter motor. that sounds like a money saving idea and answer to a problem that may worsen with age.
as said to you before though scully. you don't have 24 volts, you have 12. but you have doubled your ampage. i'm poor at electrics but that much i do know.
again as discussed with your PM i will mention the 'hot start' and it's just the kind of thing that if we can get agreement on jetting, will show conclusively as a good idea.
anyone else back-up scully's hot start?
i'm awaiting a move from schwim now with the document being made available to you the public. please remember it's long but details are brief. what i'm hoping is that there will be hyperlinks all over it feeding to the best articles to cover that subject. that's why you'll often see me doing to death one subject in one thread and not starting a whole new one just because it goes a little off line. a comprehensive thread covering a subject is ideal.
my work with the 53 cam, cam timing (and ****-ups!) will come to a head this weekend at the 2nd banovallum of the season.
i practiced at the weekend and at low revs the husey was just like the KTM 400 my mate let me ride 24 months ago. it had a lot of torque to pull a higher gear, something you can't do with the husey 400. i remember clearly that katoom ride. i went up a table top and as i got near the top on the husey the engine would die and i'd pop onto the top nicely.
i did the same on this husey this week and the front wheel just kept climbing as it hooked hard all the way up the face of the table top. so i feel the husey is becoming the ktm 400 exc of just 24 months ago.
it has the FC exhaust and it has the new keihin so the spec is good. i don't know what FC400c stands for though? this is the only 400 that came with the '53' cam? so what's a FC400 and a FC400c?
Taffy
24 volts, yes
No Tafffffffffffffff, as I said before, I do have 24 volts! I have had the spare battery hooked up in the PAST in parallel, that means 12 volts but higher output! But now it is 24 volts to the solenoid only,(batteries in series but no earth on the spare) so when you hit the starter button ONLY you get 24 volts to the cheap CBR 600 starter motor, so the motor turns over very quickly and hence a bigger spark and no more of the "crank, crank, crank, crank, crank," and eventually fire up, now it just GOES. I have to charge the spare after each ride, but like I said I'm a tinkerer! so this doesnt phase me. I know it's not for everyone, and the starter will eventually fail but for $51 Aust delivered( as opposed to $500 for the 04/650 s/motor) from the US "who cares"?
ps, and I didnt quote you!
Did your school report ever say " Taffffffyyy has the ability, but if only he would listen to what is said, he would be a much better student?"
No Tafffffffffffffff, as I said before, I do have 24 volts! I have had the spare battery hooked up in the PAST in parallel, that means 12 volts but higher output! But now it is 24 volts to the solenoid only,(batteries in series but no earth on the spare) so when you hit the starter button ONLY you get 24 volts to the cheap CBR 600 starter motor, so the motor turns over very quickly and hence a bigger spark and no more of the "crank, crank, crank, crank, crank," and eventually fire up, now it just GOES. I have to charge the spare after each ride, but like I said I'm a tinkerer! so this doesnt phase me. I know it's not for everyone, and the starter will eventually fail but for $51 Aust delivered( as opposed to $500 for the 04/650 s/motor) from the US "who cares"?
ps, and I didnt quote you!
Did your school report ever say " Taffffffyyy has the ability, but if only he would listen to what is said, he would be a much better student?"
Taffy,
I use the Trailtech Endurance on my 650 bought with the proper Husaberg fitting kit.
I lost the original magnet so used one out of a magnetic door catch from the hardware store
I have measured it head to head with my GPS and at 85 mph it was reading 0.4 mph faster than the GPS so it is accurate enough in my book.
I will be buying one of these in the near future as they are made with a +1/2" riser for the bars. They are sold in the UK as fitting Husaberg and retail @ £69.99
Poke
I use the Trailtech Endurance on my 650 bought with the proper Husaberg fitting kit.
I lost the original magnet so used one out of a magnetic door catch from the hardware store
I have measured it head to head with my GPS and at 85 mph it was reading 0.4 mph faster than the GPS so it is accurate enough in my book.
I will be buying one of these in the near future as they are made with a +1/2" riser for the bars. They are sold in the UK as fitting Husaberg and retail @ £69.99
Poke
one more thing!
One god one I forgot to mention, It was recomended to me by a suspension guru to use CRF450 fork dust caps? They are one mm smaller in diametre and have been in for 10 months and not one leaking fork seal since?????? They stop all the **** from being dragged in to the seals. I havent even cleaned up inside them since I fitted them? Best $30 bucks I've spent on the bike!
One god one I forgot to mention, It was recomended to me by a suspension guru to use CRF450 fork dust caps? They are one mm smaller in diametre and have been in for 10 months and not one leaking fork seal since?????? They stop all the **** from being dragged in to the seals. I havent even cleaned up inside them since I fitted them? Best $30 bucks I've spent on the bike!
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