People with 04 550/650's question? (starter model number)

Hey!!!!!!!!

The starter bracket came in but........................wrong again.

Reordered bracket and battery box plus all bits to make it work. I will now hold my breath till I get my stuff.

What are the BMG parts pullers doing on their breaks? :drinking:

how did you finish up husabutt?

is the 650 bracket different?

opti mate charger noticeably better?

starter more powerful?

just interested

Taffy

I'm starting to feel a bit guilty - I have an '03 and '04 650 sitting in my garage. The '03 rarely starts on the estart but usually goes on the kick OK so is a good test case - it would be quite easy for me to put the 04 starter on and see if that sorts it, and to report on what if any hassles there are in doing this mod.....
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....but I get so much grief whenever I spend any time in the garage spannering the bikes :-(

Taffy said:

how did you finish up husabutt?

is the 650 bracket different?

opti mate charger noticeably better?

starter more powerful?

just interested

Taffy

Click to expand...

I am still waiting for parts 8O . The starter bracket came in wrong twice. I reordered the bracket again along with the 04 battery box, negative battery cable and few little bits. As soon as the parts come in I will get on it and post the results.

OK, OK - if I get a spare few hours I'll do the swap and report back...

Did anybody ever sus out if the '04 starter is used by any other bikes, so that we could perhaps source them from a breakers rather than having to buy new??? I think somebody said it was the same as a CBR600 at one point.....

Cheers

Jerry

:angry: Still waiting for parts :angry:

Hanging on in quiet desperation is the American way........................

At long last, the coveted, in all its glory, hard to get, special, rare, limited and not all that common in these parts 04 550/650 starter motor bracket. Pictured here with the equally elusive 04 battery box.


The saga will now continue.

I was able to spend a few hours wrenching today and have all day tomorrow to work on the stead but I wanted to post these preliminary results as this has been going on for a long long time.

I installed the 04 starter, bracket, battery box, negative battery cable and YTZ7S battery. The bike is pretty stripped down, carb off etc.
After getting all the electrics hooked up.............The moment of truth.
It works!

At first when I hit the button nothing. Leaned on it a few more times and heard a click, Humm. Tried it again and the electrics came to life. Must have been the starter relay clicking in. It has been dormant a long time.
I was ecstatic to hear that little starter spinning the motor over. I tried it again and again. It worked every time. It didn't start as the carb and stator are off but it spins good.

I used the original 01 negative battery cable that grounds to the upper chain roller and the 04 negative cable that attaches to the starter bracket. The next time I pull the battery/starter I am going to replace the allen bolts that hold the starter and bracket on (4) with regular hex bolts. There is some adjustment (play) in the bracket and it is virtually impossible to loosen or tighten the starter bracket bolts with the starter in place which is necessary to get a good starter/bracket alignment. I had to use needle nose vise grips to tighten the bracket bolts as an allen wrench won't fit with the starter in place.

Well so far so good. It looks like an 04 550/650 starter may be the ticket to better e-starting on 2001-2003 models. Especially the 01's which seem to have had the most e-start problems. Most never worked. Mine included.

I'll button it up tomorrow and see if the beast will fire up.

That's impressive! If the motor turns over that well with the carby removed the new starter must be a lot stronger!

Normally the carby restricts the amount of air that can flow into the chamber reducing the cranking pressure. If you have ever tried turning the motor over with the throttle closed, then throttle wide open you'll know what I mean.

Spent all day cleaning everything prior to reassembly. Disassembled the carb cleaned and blew it out. Put everything back together, installed a new plug and began pushing the happy button. It turned the motor over really good for many attempts but it would not start. The battery finally ran down. Pulled the plug and the spark was dismal to nonexistent. I had a new stator ready to go as I knew the original one was operating on borrowed time.

After installing the new stator it began comming to life on the very first kick. It took about 10 kicks to clean it out and get it going. I ran out of time and need to recharge the battery before attempting e-starting again. I'll report back soon hopefully before next weekend. I am almost certain this is going to work out very nicely. This is without doing anything to the stock 01 autodecompression system. When it comes time to freshen up the top end I'll order up an 03 decompressor but the results so far are encouraging.

If this turns out like I think it will I'll post all the parts and part numbers so that Taffy can add them to his timely reminder-info sheet if he so chooses.

Got everything totally put together and the battery fully charged. Temperature was about 70 degrees and sunny. Hit the button and it mostly spun without engaging the sprag. Now I know what you guys are talking about. Decided to kick start it, get it warm and then try the button. It kick started easy enough but when I tried the button again it would not spin it fast enough and had a hard time getting past the compression stroke. Tried many times and even pulled in the manual decompression lever which allowed it to spin but when disengaged it would stop spinning.

Conclusion:

The 04 550/650 starter is much stronger than the original 01 starter. The motor would not even turn over with the 01 starter. Before the carburetor was bolted the 04 starter turned the motor over pretty fast which lead me into a false sense of accomplishment. The addition of an 04 550/650 starter will not cure the 01's starting problems in its entirety. I was hoping it would without touching the autodecompressor but that is not going to be the case. Getting the proper amount of exhaust valve lift by fitting an 03, stock or possibly modified autodecompressor, will be necessary. Since most 02 and 03 models have a better track record for e-starting this still may prove to be a worthwhile modification to those bikes.

I won't be digging into the top end right now as everything seems to be good and the bike kick starts easily enough.

If someone else wants to try this on their 02 or 03 only two parts are required:

Starter P.N. 82040001000 $212.07
Starter bracket P.N. 82040002000 $47.63

Everything else will bolt up fine. I would recommend getting the 04 negative battery cable and swapping the four starter and bracket allen bolts for regular hex bolts which come standard on the 04.

My only question now is when I do go in and change the autodecompression device should I get the one for the 03 400/501/550 or shoot the works and get the 03 650 one?

husabutt said:

My only question now is when I do go in and change the autodecompression device should I get the one for the 03 400/501/550 or shoot the works and get the 03 650 one?

Click to expand...

Unless you've already done so, get the 04 650 bob weight, not the 03 one.

Cheers,
Simon

Thanks Simon!

Your response was just in time. I recently ordered an 03 weight and now also ordered an 04 650 one. We'll be able to see the difference between the two and I will post the pics for sure.

Here's a shot of an 04 650 autodecompression device on the left and on the right is the 01-03 400/501/550.

The 04 unit seems to be of higher quality as the shaft is polished and the rest of it is dark with no signs of oxidation. The 03 one is very slightly oxidized and looks like bare steel.

The big difference is in weight:
03=34 grams
04=29 grams

I hope that I can fit the 04 one as it is a nice piece of machine work!

Re: People with 04 550/650's question? (starter model number

eric

you're really dragging out this story! the suspense is killing me!

the ultimate question is; can people upgrade using OEM equipment or do we go scully's way and go CB600F4 or is it mitsubi zero dive bomber special?

regards

Taffy

Re: People with 04 550/650's question? (starter model number

I know but when I got that 05 450 all other projects went to hell

The 470 blew its head gasket. Thats installed. I just need to reassemble the valve cover etc.

I am leaving the stock autodecompression device in for the time being as the return spring was installed incorrectly at the factory and I want to see how it works stock.

The 04 550/650 starter will go in of course.

I am going out to the garage today. It shouldn't be much longer.

Lefrog put in a CBR starter with unevenful results but who knows if it is an exact match to the OEM unit.