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Oils and oil additives

Something I found to make it easy.

Diesel engine oil has more additives per volume. The most prevalent are overbase detergent additives. This additive has several jobs, but the main ones are to neutralize acids and clean. Diesel engines create a great deal more soot and combustion byproducts. Through blow-by, these find their way into the crankcase, forcing the oil to deal with them. When you put this extra additive load in a gasoline engine, the effects can be devastating to performance. The detergent will work as it is designed and try to clean the cylinder walls. This can have an adverse effect on the seal between the rings and liner, resulting in lost compression and efficiency.
 
Md4stone said:
There is nothing mystical about engine oil.

But by all means buy the $20/liter 4T oil. Peace of mind is more important than $ or lubrication, right?




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FE350 buy whatever you like. You sound more like you are trying to convince yourself than you are trying to convince me [emoji848]

Racing teams get their oil for free from sponsors so take what you will from that fact [emoji12]

Here's what Wikipedia has to say about Rotella T6 being used in non-diesel capacity:
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There are millions of happy money savers out there proving that hype is not necessarily accurate. Actually, if you are going to change your oil every 300-500 miles, you can use any oil as long as it is JASO MA rated.

Or not. To each his own, whatever floats your boat [emoji3]



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Yes so true, but do you actually want your engine oil to work the way it was designed or do you want to take a chance? My thoughts are based on specific facts and not based on the guessing by a bunch of people to save a dollar. I don't need to convince myself as I already know the answer. I just like everyone to know facts when choosing a oil to save money as this is a forum for advise and help. Allot of motorcycle people use Rotella and it seems to work for them, but I have not heard one study done about the after affects of this. Any oil will work and even oil that are not Jaso certified but this does not mean it want cause future damage. Studies have been done on Motorcycle oil to ensure they stand up and don't do the damage, can anyone say these studies have been done for diesel oil in motorcycles? If this was the case than Rotella would become a diesel and motorcycle oil to up Shells oil sales.
 
tourist said:
I do remember some threads :)

People on here who I trust really like Delo 400!

The Motorex Cross-Power stuff recommended by KTM in recent years is supposed to be quite good.

Availability isn't great over here so I go for Motul 300V and 7100 synthetic.

Then there's an engineer type guy that has a giant blog where he does oil tests. I can't dig it up right now. It's on Blogspot I think - anyone remember this?

If you search for these terms you may find some older threads. There was some good discussion on Delo just recently.

The important thing is to just change the oil often. That gets the trapped combustion byproducts out, and gets you an inside look at things ...
Click to expand...


Tourist, did you know that Delo 400 is diesel oil? I don't think some people are going to be ok with you using that so maybe you better stop before you become a statistic [emoji6][emoji12][emoji23]




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OK, I'm an old timer that uses diesel oil with an additive.

When I acquired my first Berg, a '98 FE501 way back in 1998 I wanted to look after it. Unusual perhaps. I used to get a good wholesale deal on Mobil lubricants and I used exclusively Mobil 1 R4T in the Berg from new.

A service item on the older Bergs is valve follower bearings @150 hrs. I let mine got a bit longer and paid the price of not only new bearings but a new camshaft.

Former inmate here, Dale Lineaweaver, with a background not only race tuning Berg's to championship wins, but with Chevon developing oil, recommeded Delo 400.

As many diesel engines include gear drives for things like compressors and cam shafts, the oil has to handle shear just like a mc gearbox too. Dale reckoned the Delo is ideal for any engine that's predominantly ball/roller bearing based.

I decided to go with it. That engine is still going fine with over 800 hrs on it, and the same follower bearings I put in it at 180 hrs. Original bottom end, even clutch plates.

This is as close to a scientific experiment as I can come up with for oil.

On Bushies suggestion, it gets a shot of Lucas Oil Stabiliser too.

The Delo goes in my tractor, my XT1200Z, DR650SEs, FE650, KLX300, XT250, generator, pump, etc. without issue.
 
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Whaaaaaaaatttttt??????

steve said:
OK, I'm an old timer that uses diesel oil with an additive.

When I acquired my first Berg, a '98 FE501 way back in 1998 I wanted to look after it. Unusual perhaps. I used to get a good wholesale deal on Mobil lubricants and I used exclusively Mobil 1 R4T in the Berg from new.

A service item on the older Bergs is valve follower bearings @150 hrs. I let mine got a bit longer and paid the price of not only new bearings but a new camshaft.

Former inmate here, Dale Lineaweaver, with a background not only race tuning Berg's to championship wins, but with Chevon developing oil, recommeded Delo 400.

As many diesel engines include gear drives for things like compressors and cam shafts, the oil has to handle shear just like a mc gearbox too. Dale reckoned the Delo is ideal for any engine that's predominantly ball/roller bearing based.

I decided to go with it. That engine is still going fine with over 800 hrs on it, and the same follower bearings I put in it at 180 hrs. Original bottom end, even clutch plates.

This is as close to a scientific experiment as I can come up with for oil.

On Bushies suggestion, it gets a shot of Lucas Oil Stabiliser too.

The Delo goes in my tractor, my XT1200Z, DR650SEs, FE650, KLX300, XT250, generator, pump, etc. without issue.
Click to expand...
Wow Steve! Now this is the story that needs to be told! I would love to know of more similar testimonies. Is that Dello 400 synthetic? I am car mechan8c that turned truck mechanic for 15 years and I was doing limited research into oils for the purpose of opening my own lube shop. I know that in the last 15-20 years oil became something of a scientific product. There is lots of tech in todays oils. I am tottally neutral about what goes in my Husaberg as l9ng as it has been field proven to work very good. Low price is bonus of course. Nodern diesels have extremely high pressures on cam lobes and timing gear train. I have no doubt that synthetic rotella and dello are just state of the art quality oils. There are others as well. Very interesting would be to hear from independent source how are oils tested for MA. Also what are KTM people saying aboit rotella/dello in private conversation. In my freshly rebuilt 550 I will use "proper" oil for the second change and after that it will be rotella t6 and dello. If dello sunthetic is a go.
 
PS, no JASO MA doesn't mean it fails, just means they didn't get it tested.
 
An oil anecodote for you. Some years ago the German Yamaha world supersport team racing R6s was major sponsored by a major oil company. After numerous gearbox and clutch related failures they switched to another brand oil and transmission problems went away. I won't mention brand names, but I got the story from a mate who worked with the Yamaha Oz RR team at the time. Oils aint oils as they used to say.
 
steve said:
PS, no JASO MA doesn't mean it fails, just means they didn't get it tested.
Click to expand...



The no JASO MA is a deal breaker for me. One of my bikes is still on warranty so I have to toe the line for that one. And I like the full synthetic aspect for maximum anti-shear, so I don't mind paying $9 a gallon more for the Rotella T6. Otherwise that $13/gallon Delo 400 is awfully enticing.

There is a big difference between being cheap and being smart. The smart person does his research, and then makes the wise purchase based on getting the best product AND the best value. In some instances price follows quality. But that's not the case with engine oil. You don't have to pay a lot to get top self lubrication. You just need to know what you are buying. There are literally millions of motorcycle and high performance car owners and mechanics out there singing the praises of using diesel oil in their expensive high performance gasoline engines. So are they all wrong?

I am neither cheap nor stupid. And I wouldn't place my engines at risk to save a few bucks buying cheap oil. I think most of us are the same when it comes to our motorcycles: price is not an issue.


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Md4stone said:
The no JASO MA is a deal breaker for me. One of my bikes is still on warranty so I have to toe the line for that one. And I like the full synthetic aspect for maximum anti-shear, so I don't mind paying $9 a gallon more for the Rotella T6. Otherwise that $13/gallon Delo 400 is awfully enticing.

There is a big difference between being cheap and being smart. The smart person does his research, and then makes the wise purchase based on getting the best product AND the best value. In some instances price follows quality. But that's not the case with engine oil. You don't have to pay a lot to get top self lubrication. You just need to know what you are buying. There are literally millions of motorcycle and high performance car owners and mechanics out there singing the praises of using diesel oil in their expensive high performance gasoline engines. So are they all wrong?

I am neither cheap nor stupid. And I wouldn't place my engines at risk to save a few bucks buying cheap oil. I think most of us are the same when it comes to our motorcycles: price is not an issue.


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Click to expand...

Hate to break the news but the minute they take an oil sample at the dealer and find a diesel oil in your bike Jaso or not it will be the end of your warrantee. Jaso does not mean it isn't a deal breaker it is the additives use in the diesel oils that will show in the sample as well the glaze on your cylinder wall. Correct oil application is what matters. Have taken many oil samples at a dealer level and voided many engine warrantee claims. And yes a sample will tell everything about the oil as well prior oils. Traces of all kinds of stuff show up many oil changes latter. Most new diesel euro cars are running gasoline oils for the reason of damage resulted from additives.
I wish all those using incorrect oils the best and hope they continue to have success with the experiments they do. I just had to give my two cents on the subject as I would never want to see someone who is new to motorcycle's void a warrantee or worse damage an engine just to save a few dollars.
 
Edit: I'm done commenting in this thread but I will answer polska's question below before I go on being 'cheap' elsewhere.
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Hey!

Gentleman! Gentleman!! This is my post and my thread, haha. Save your energy... Winters comin... I felt somethin was comin, maybe cold of some kind..Would be good to know how they are testing for MA. Anyone has any info on this?
 
New challenge!

I want to thank those that shared useful information here that is based on fects and merit. Thank yoy Md4stone for sharing MA info. FE350 can you provide some back up info about modern diesels going to use gasoline oils??? I am having really hard time believing this. They are using thinner oils ever like 0w30! But gas engine oils??? You need to back it up with some info from the source. Now Steve! :cool:I think you are official champion in how many hours you got on your engine without major repair! Has anyone ever heard of pre 70 deg.engine accumulating more houre before needing rebuild? How about a challenge to reach1000 hours!!!:eek: I will be aiming for this! Just it might take me forever to get 1000 hours! I will have 650 rebuilt and I want to set it up for long lice before needing overhaul. I will start a new thread.:eek:
 
polska said:
I want to thank those that shared useful information here that is based on fects and merit. Thank yoy Md4stone for sharing MA info. FE350 can you provide some back up info about modern diesels going to use gasoline oils??? I am having really hard time believing this. They are using thinner oils ever like 0w30! But gas engine oils??? You need to back it up with some info from the source. Now Steve! :cool:I think you are official champion in how many hours you got on your engine without major repair! Has anyone ever heard of pre 70 deg.engine accumulating more houre before needing rebuild? How about a challenge to reach1000 hours!!!:eek: I will be aiming for this! Just it might take me forever to get 1000 hours! I will have 650 rebuilt and I want to set it up for long lice before needing overhaul. I will start a new thread.:eek:
Click to expand...

VW, Mercedes and BMW etc. one would think the engineers of these high end cars have an idea?

Castrol SLX is the oil of choice and is not diesel oil or labeled as such it does not have the additives such labeled diesel oil has and these manufactures will void a engine warrantee if you were to use a labeled diesel oil. This must say something. I am by no means an engineer for oil, but I do have common sense as a Technician and do understand sludge, additives and how engines such as compression over spark run differently and need different properties to work correctly. I did read somewhere on this topic discussion and if I read correct someone noted that JASO means motorcycle oil? Jaso is a private standard and nothing more you either like the Jap Standard (JASO) or the American Petro Standard (API) just because the JASO did not approve does not mean the oil is any different that the API certification just different companies doing the testing. Below is right from Castrol what is a leading manufacture of high quality oil for a very long time, they do not hold Jaso and confirm to the API standard.

Castrol SLX Professional OE 5W-30
High Performance, Full Synthetic engine oil
Description
Engine oils need to be able to constantly respond to the ever-changing environments in your engine. Every second of the
drive your engine oil needs to be able to react to the needs of different metal-to-metal contact points in your engine each
with different demands, pressures and temperatures. Castrol SLX Professional OE is our European formulation that is
specifically engineered to improve engine durability in European vehicles. It is a full synthetic motor oil that is suitable
for use in automotive gasoline and diesel engines where the manufacturer requires a 5W-30 oil.
Many European manufacturers specify viscosity requirements that differ with the requirements of ILSACGF-5.
Specifications established by BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen demand that oils meet a certain minimum high
temperature / high sheer (HTHS) viscosity to provide proper protection.
Castrol products are recommended by our OEM partners: Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Land Rover, Mazda, Mini, Volkswagen and
Volvo.
Characteristics
Castrol SLX Professional
Specifications OE 5W-30
API SN X
API SM X
API SL X
API SJ X
API CF X
ACEA C3 X
BMW Longlife-04 X
MB-Approval 229.31/ 229.51 X
VW 502 00/ 505 00/ 505 01 X

Oh and if you were to run this in a commercial truck application you would void that warrantee with Cat or Cummins etc. I will not say this enough, oil is specific to application thus the reason we have so many different types and oils with different additives. This is not a marketing technique as the oil companies spend tons of money doing research to design for application.
 
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i started using diesel oil (chevron rpm delo supreme) for racing cars back in the sixties when redline got too expensive. you could buy a case of 24 quarts for well less than $10. it worked great on high compression engines. when i got my first rekluse clutch years ago, they recommended you use a diesel oil which just confirmed my feelings about it. i've used it on all my 4 stroke bikes. (also, i'm cheap)
 
LMAO Ned, Yes we all try and save money as sometimes it is hard to come by. I have used Comet Cleaner to seat rings in my engines to save the time in pulling apart and honing lol. It worked and by no means was a correct fix but it does work. What ever can work for you and save money is always a good thing. I do think that Recluse has removed the use of diesel oil from their guidelines due to warranty issue with the manufactures as it became a liability to them, I might be wrong but do think that was the case.
 
ned37 said:
i started using diesel oil (chevron rpm delo supreme) for racing cars back in the sixties when redline got too expensive. you could buy a case of 24 quarts for well less than $10. it worked great on high compression engines. when i got my first rekluse clutch years ago, they recommended you use a diesel oil which just confirmed my feelings about it. i've used it on all my 4 stroke bikes. (also, i'm cheap)
Click to expand...
How were your motorcycle engines running on diesel oil? How many engine hours? Any major failures? I tend to think that full synthetic diesel oil is simply top notch quality oil that is really more like universal use oil. It deals with extreme pressures and temperatures very well. Oil film strength is superb. Its molecules are controlling/coating soot and dirt particles also very well. I am familiar with Volvo truck standards. VDS 3 and VDS 4 Only very few oils are good enough to get this certification. It goes through extensive testing. Synthetic Dello and. T6 both are VDS4.
 
FE350 said:
VW, Mercedes and BMW etc. one would think the engineers of these high end cars have an idea?

Castrol SLX is the oil of choice and is not diesel oil or labeled as such it does not have the additives such labeled diesel oil has and these manufactures will void a engine warrantee if you were to use a labeled diesel oil. This must say something. I am by no means an engineer for oil, but I do have common sense as a Technician and do understand sludge, additives and how engines such as compression over spark run differently and need different properties to work correctly. I did read somewhere on this topic discussion and if I read correct someone noted that JASO means motorcycle oil? Jaso is a private standard and nothing more you either like the Jap Standard (JASO) or the American Petro Standard (API) just because the JASO did not approve does not mean the oil is any different that the API certification just different companies doing the testing. Below is right from Castrol what is a leading manufacture of high quality oil for a very long time, they do not hold Jaso and confirm to the API standard.

Castrol SLX Professional OE 5W-30
High Performance, Full Synthetic engine oil
Description
Engine oils need to be able to constantly respond to the ever-changing environments in your engine. Every second of the
drive your engine oil needs to be able to react to the needs of different metal-to-metal contact points in your engine each
with different demands, pressures and temperatures. Castrol SLX Professional OE is our European formulation that is
specifically engineered to improve engine durability in European vehicles. It is a full synthetic motor oil that is suitable
for use in automotive gasoline and diesel engines where the manufacturer requires a 5W-30 oil.
Many European manufacturers specify viscosity requirements that differ with the requirements of ILSACGF-5.
Specifications established by BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen demand that oils meet a certain minimum high
temperature / high sheer (HTHS) viscosity to provide proper protection.
Castrol products are recommended by our OEM partners: Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Land Rover, Mazda, Mini, Volkswagen and
Volvo.
Characteristics
Castrol SLX Professional
Specifications OE 5W-30
API SN X
API SM X
API SL X
API SJ X
API CF X
ACEA C3 X
BMW Longlife-04 X
MB-Approval 229.31/ 229.51 X
VW 502 00/ 505 00/ 505 01 X

Oh and if you were to run this in a commercial truck application you would void that warrantee with Cat or Cummins etc. I will not say this enough, oil is specific to application thus the reason we have so many different types and oils with different additives. This is not a marketing technique as the oil companies spend tons of money doing research to design for application.
Click to expand...

Ya I know about European modern diesels, I have a wv and merc. They are working with oil companies directly developing oils specificly to car manufacturers own specs. These oils are designed to work in both gas and diesel engines. They have all necessary ingredients to deal with diesel and gas combustion process, so really its not accurate to call it gas engine oil, rather car standard specific type and that type seys where it can be used.
 

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