Oil filter screw

nitzi · May 17, 2009

Hello,

i own a '07 FS 650 E and although im not a great handy man i used to change the oil and filter on my own.

Well, that is until i over-screwed one of the two screws holding the oil-filter (the one on the upper left).

Did anyone run into this problem and more importantly how do you think it could be solved?

p.s. the reason i over-screwed it was because when i started my engine after an oil change it leaked at the oil filter cover, so i took it out with the bike on the left side, checked the two rubber o-rings which were ok and i put it back on.
i started the bike and again it leaked so i thought i screw it a bit tighter (dumb, i know).

So could it be a double trouble, cause i dont understand why it was leaking if the screws where as tight as they could be?

Thanks

cypher · May 17, 2009

both my 450 and my old 400 have leaked at the cover.
infact my '06 450 is doing it at the moment. usually a change of the o-rings sorts it out.

as for your other problem. i dont know.

nitzi · May 18, 2009

damn, feels even worse when it seems like im the only one who screwed that one (or better said "over-screwed")

wildman · May 18, 2009

Take the bike to a shop & have them install a Helli-coil. No big deal but a root to do if you don't have the right tools. BUy new o-rings whilst you're there. Minimal cost & get back riding.. :wink:

nitzi · May 18, 2009

hey thanks a lot, i didnt know about that Helicoil.

Hard to find here to, I barely found one online shop that sells a Repair Kit, lucky its in my city. It seems it isnt popular here. The Husa dealer didnt know what that was either

Come to think of it, I know a guy here who over-screwed the magnet screw (one of the two screws that lets the oil out) some time ago.
Last i heard he drilled a larger hole and sealed it shut with another screw or something like that (im sorry for my bad techincal terms).

Do you think this Helicoil would have worked in his case to, without leaking and all?

zeus · May 18, 2009

Helicoils can replace any stripped thread, I used one once to fix a stripped spark plug thread on a XR70. I also use them from time to time now in my work fixing irrigation water pumps and alikes some of the pumps I've re threaded produce in excess of 1200 kpa ( 175 p.s.i )

nitzi · May 18, 2009

thanks a lot for the info guys

Johnf3 · May 18, 2009

Usually a broken bolt that small can be drilled out with a left hand drill bit, and during the drilling process the bolt will back right out, negating the need for a heli coil or other thread repair kit.

Heli coils require that there is enough surrounding metal material around the threads to drill out (enlarge the bolt hole) so the insert can be installed. The oil filter cover is going to be tight in this regard.

I'd really try to save the original threads in this application, and it should not be too hard. Whoever works on it should know what they are doing, so the problem doesn't get even worse.

zeus · May 19, 2009

to do that you want to use an ( easy out ) which is like a reverse drill bit. But you drill a pilot hole into a broken bolt at a given size then its just like tapping a new thread only its backwards!!

NKW570 · May 19, 2009

I broke one on my ktm, same size bolt.
No easy out the right size so i carefully drilled a 2.5mm pilot then followed up with a 3mm, low torque on reverse and this pulled out the remains.
Dont go beyond 3 and drill straight or you will damage case thread.

Johnf3 · May 19, 2009

zeus said:
to do that you want to use an ( easy out ) which is like a reverse drill bit. But you drill a pilot hole into a broken bolt at a given size then its just like tapping a new thread only its backwards!!

I wouldn't recommend easy outs to my worst enemy, sorry. Once you break one of those off in the already broken bolt, you really have issues. If you must use them, a professional, high quality set is a must.

Left handed drill bits work really good on broken bolts or studs, Since they drill in a counter-clockwise direction, the broken bolt will quite often back right out as you are drilling in. No easy out or other type of bolt extractor needed.

My best friend owns a repair shop (cars) and he gets to fix everyones else's mistakes all the time, and sees broken bolts and studs daily. He is a master at removing these, and left handed bits are the first thing he uses.

on-one-wheel · May 19, 2009

Hey Nitzi i need a bit more info off you if you can .... The above answers may be confusing you as they are answering two different problems. You say you overtightened the bolt. Two things can either happen when you overtighten a bolt, depending on which metal part is stronger. Either the bolt shears (snaps in half, usually [and imo the worst] leaves the bolt flush with the casing) OR the threads in the hole will strip leaving just a plain hole.

An easy out, or we call them Stud extracters, are used to remove the bolt that has sheared in the hole.

A helicoil is used to repair a hole in which the threads have been stripped

So what has happened to yours ?

John, its interesting you say that. I have never even come across a left handed drill bit. the whole idea of removing the broken stud is that you drive it out like you drive it in. a drill bit doesnt generate half as much turning force as a stud extracter because the drill bit is designed to drill a hole. They really shouldnt snap unless they are very bad quality or not screwed far enough into the stud which means you are using a very narrow part of the extractor compared to a pretty thick stud
It helps if you can flatten the surface of the stud for straight drilling and also a tap of a centre punch will loosen the threads slightly and also give you a perfect centre point to drill from. Just keep the drill straight. Works everytime for me ...

Nitzi dont let it put you off servicing your bike. If somethings not right, make a brew and have a smoke (if you smoke) and think about the problem ...
If its leaking then the o ring will be at fault as its that which seals the oil from the outside world. The bolts simply stop the filter cap falling out.

Johnf3 · May 19, 2009

on-one-wheel said:
Hey Nitzi i need a bit more info off you if you can .... The above answers may be confusing you as they are answering two different problems. You say you overtightened the bolt. Two things can either happen when you overtighten a bolt, depending on which metal part is stronger. Either the bolt shears (snaps in half, usually [and imo the worst] leaves the bolt flush with the casing) OR the threads in the hole will strip leaving just a plain hole.

An easy out, or we call them Stud extracters, are used to remove the bolt that has sheared in the hole.

A helicoil is used to repair a hole in which the threads have been stripped

So what has happened to yours ?

John, its interesting you say that. I have never even come across a left handed drill bit. the whole idea of removing the broken stud is that you drive it out like you drive it in. a drill bit doesnt generate half as much turning force as a stud extracter because the drill bit is designed to drill a hole. They really shouldnt snap unless they are very bad quality or not screwed far enough into the stud which means you are using a very narrow part of the extractor compared to a pretty thick stud
It helps if you can flatten the surface of the stud for straight drilling and also a tap of a centre punch will loosen the threads slightly and also give you a perfect centre point to drill from. Just keep the drill straight. Works everytime for me ...

Nitzi dont let it put you off servicing your bike. If somethings not right, make a brew and have a smoke (if you smoke) and think about the problem ...
If its leaking then the o ring will be at fault as its that which seals the oil from the outside world. The bolts simply stop the filter cap falling out.

Smithy,
Left handed bits are fairly common here. Any supplier that caters to the professional mechanic market, like Snap On, etc carry them. I've fixed many broken off bolts and know what I speak of, as I am sure you do as well. On a small bolt, such as an oil filter cover bolt on a Husaberg, left hand bits work very well. The drilling action does generate enough torque to usually back out the broken bolt.

My original point was that I though the original threads could easily be saved in this case, without resorting to Heli coils or other thread repair methods. Obviously there are different methods to getting this done. I'll choose the most simple and easiest way every time.

nitzi · May 22, 2009

thanks a lot for the help guys, i'll try to be more specific.

The bolt is intact.

The threads in the hole have strip. (i dont think all the threads strip, maybe just the ones further back into the hole if that is possible). I was able to unscrew it gently (that's why im thinking maybe not all the thread is destroyed) and the screw had a small piece of thread on it (maybe 4-5 spirals long right on the top of the screw).

I wanted to see if there where residues inside so i took the other screw and gently inserted it with my hand. It began screwing and after a few laps it stopped so i figured there are thread remains inside, at wich point i took it out, left it like that on the side-stand and logged into Husaberg.org

I'm waiting for a friend of mine that's a mechanic for the local motocross team to return in about a week and take a look at the bike, so until then I got time to document on the web

zeus · May 22, 2009

nitzi,
just strippnig off the last threads like that is normally the case with overtightnig a bolt into a stud hole. Unforunately my advise would be to buy yourself a helicoil kit thats the rite size and put a new thread in there, that is much easier said than done because you need to re drill the stud (oversize) to the rite depth ( make sure you measure with a vernier or an accurate depth indicator) then tap the hole and glue in the helicioil.

The only other suggestion ( not that it is my suggestion!! ) is do it DODGY and locktite in a shorter bolt to a coupl of threads before the first stripped thread,
This is fine for the one off.. all be it dodgy... but your going to want to undo again and again and again....... FIX IT PROPERLY NOW THEN NEXT TIME IT LEAKS YOU'LL KNOW, NEW BLOODY O'RINGS. Dont ya hate sh*t lessons

Hope your back out before too long

Mat

nitzi · May 22, 2009

best way to learn

the o-rings looked intact (to my untrained eye at least) so i didnt think they could be the problem.

well the repair job will be done by a friend of mine that is a mechanic for the local motocross team in Bucharest, but now they're out of country for a race in Germany, so i got a week of studying all the possible solutions

zeus · May 22, 2009

Sorry to be a bit harsh.. i wasnt trying to be.
I deal with o-rings everyday on water pumps and althougn they look OK somethimes there's a little flat spot, hair line split, twist or whatever but any hydrolic seal that relies on an o-ring that leaks can only be one of two things.
The o-ring or the seat

on-one-wheel · May 22, 2009

John, wasnt meaning to diss your methods or say it wasnt the way to do it or anything like that so sorry if thats how it came across. Just ive never even heard of a 'backwards' drill bit (although im in industrial engineering not mechanicing). Sure would be interesting to try your method however !

nitzi · Jun 17, 2009

problem finally solved.

he took a long screw with the same size and sealed it inside the hole using the remaining threads and Poxipol (? or some other wonderglue you mechanics use for that

). Then he sliced off the head of the screw so that the filter cap may go out without removing the screw from the hole and used two "bolt nuts" to hold the cap in place (i dont know if that's what they're called in english

)

about using helicoil he was worried about my "powerfull oil changing arm" making a further mess of things so he decided to use this method. Thanks for the help guys.

Ill try to post some pics of the whole thing, as a picture is worth a thousand words (or a million words considering my english)

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