Offset

which bike ?

I know 2 guys who prefered 18mm (europe, rocks and stuff) and 19mm (oz) for the new chassis over the 22s for improved stabilty

in the old chassis I think 16 - 14s would suit a lot of applications though not may people run less than 18

stock on my 08 is 21mm offset +/- 1mm with the stem flip, so 20/ 22

If or when I get a new Berg, one of the first things that I will do is to replace the 22mm clamps with 18mm clamps for a more 'planted', less twitchy front end.

This Safari just finished I was riding a 2010 570 with the 22mm clamps................after 3 days I changed it over to a set of 19mm '09 ones we had, made a big difference to stability at speed and my confidence, the 22mm ones scared the crap out of me a few times with massive tank slappers @ around 140kph and this is with the Scotts damper set real hard to slow things down 8O 8O 8O :cry:

Once I had the 19mm ones on it was more comfortable but still not as stable as the 650 which I no issues with at 170+kph for long sections.

That said once in the tighter parts of a stage the 19mm felt like they did push the front end more, but I could live with that rather than being thrown off the thing at speed.

Now I'm gunna test a set of 18mm ones off a 650 and see how that feels, also will be looking at what could be done to make the swingarm longer...............many of the hard core Dakar enduro based rally bikes do this, again to get more stability

Hi Gazza

very curious if the longer swingarm reduces the push you noticed from less offset. maybe the stability in part comes from changing the weight bias to the front and being able to run more trail. the 650 sure has a LOT more front weight bias but it isn't any longer than the 09s I think.

I saw your scotts damper, how is it different ride wise to the ohlins 2.0 ?

Gazza said:

This Safari just finished I was riding a 2010 570 with the 22mm clamps................after 3 days I changed it over to a set of 19mm '09 ones we had, made a big difference to stability at speed and my confidence, the 22mm ones scared the crap out of me a few times with massive tank slappers @ around 140kph and this is with the Scotts damper set real hard to slow things down 8O 8O 8O :cry:

Once I had the 19mm ones on it was more comfortable but still not as stable as the 650 which I no issues with at 170+kph for long sections.

That said once in the tighter parts of a stage the 19mm felt like they did push the front end more, but I could live with that rather than being thrown off the thing at speed.

Now I'm gunna test a set of 18mm ones off a 650 and see how that feels, also will be looking at what could be done to make the swingarm longer...............many of the hard core Dakar enduro based rally bikes do this, again to get more stability

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So you used 18mm offset triples on the 650 ?

The_Force said:

So you used 18mm offset triples on the 650 ?

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the '07 & '08 650's here in Australia came with 18-20mm adjustables as standard, and yes we set them up at 18mm for stablity at speed.

so i got a bum deal on the triples would have much prefered the 18mm option

is mine a one off or are there other 08 650s in OZ with the 20/22s ?

14 on my -00

Smorgasbord said:

14 on my -00

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I just bought a set of 14mm offset clamps from the states (off a 03 KTM), very keen to chuck them on and see if they are any good. Currently had the std 09 clamps on and even with my suspension valved and sprung for m weight don't have 100% confidence in the front end.
Clamps were $50 plus postage so worth a try

Cool

I'f they're no good on your bike Bowser I'd like to have a crack at them

I tried the 20 mm offset option on my 07 650 and didn't like the front end push. I made no other changes, and reverted back to standard 18. Works for me.

As an aside, I've just bought on ebay a set of CC forks and triple clamps off an 08 450 SXF KTM. I intend to adapt these to my DR650 and the offset is an issue to be addressed. At this stage I intend to machine up some eccentric bushes so I can use the Suzuki wheel and 17 mm axle. I intend to stake them to the fork with a set screw so that they are the same each side. Should be interesting. Hopefully the forks will be a good match the 96 Ohlins KTM shock that has also been acquired on ebay, $530 AUD delivered. Or I could fit the new CC forks to the Berg and the OC forks to the DR, choices :idea: The stock Suzi suspension is diabolical. I have done what can be done, cartridge emulators and springs and valved by Frank and it now works OK, but I want it to ride like the Berg. Shed time

Steve

steve said:

I tried the 20 mm offset option on my 07 650 and didn't like the front end push. I made no other changes, and reverted back to standard 18.

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Wrong, just checked my manual, and the 07 FE option is 20/22, so I like the 20 vs 22.
The 07 FS is 16/18. I thought the 08 was the same as the 07?

Steve

my manual says the same Steve, 20/22

Gazza Told me the 08s came with 18/20 so some of them must have

somehow mine has 20/22s if you unbolt the black plastic reinforcing bar ontop of the guard you can see the numbers stamped in the lower clamp. mine says 20/22 and actual offset measures 21mm.

bushmechanic said:

Cool

I'f they're no good on your bike Bowser I'd like to have a crack at them

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no worries, they haven't turned up yet which is good cause my bike is in a million bits as i've got the injector out getting it cleaned.
also fitted the SKF seals in the forks the other day which i want to try out before putting on the clamps

I know serpexc has one the new ones....

I am running the 22's on my bike (the 09). I really like them. We ride singletrack only. As tight as we can find, they work great. My bike came with the 19's. I didn't like them, they felt weird. I may go back to the 19's to try them out now that I have the suspension sorted better just to see what they are like.

One of the things I like about the 22's over the 19's is the ability to carve a rut.... It can just be a tiny little rut and I can crank it over and get on the gas whipping around the corner sticking its line. The 19's would not do this. It is really noticeable on grasstrack (which I LOVE!). I can get on the gas in a corner WAY early!

I should add, I am running cimwill's stacks which causes my forks to ride up in the stroke more than stock.

firstly gazza is riding balls out at very, high speeds and I doubt he would say he has the perfect set up with all that weight and the bike so different from standard so he has his reasons but for the rest of us mere mortals we have every reason to get the suspension well set and then work with the offset.

IMHO its got to be done in that order because changing the offset 3mm will alter your suspension yet again anyway.

I was the person that put 14s on his 2001-2003 frame and found an improvement. there is a test on them somewhere in the archives but I'd never claim now, on reflection, to have the definitive brain for the job at that time.

the frame I'm running now is the 2004-2008 frame with the steeper rake (see 'the doc' under year recognition - chapter 1) and I have tried going from the standard 22 to 18 and now I'm back at 20mm.

standard 22s: because the front wheel wouldn't step far enough off-line I couldn't get the bike to drop into corners. when it was there, due to the steering having little effect I found i didn't 'fight' the steering or get it wrong. I didn't have to keep correcting what i did like a twitchy kart driver.

I went to 18s: the bike fell into corners but I would then ride over/under/over/under all the way round the corner and probably eventually miss the rut completely. the bike was way too sensitive after the initial drop in.

so i went to 20s: the bike still drops in but i'm not overreacting going around the corner. well thats the story so far as it was only last weekend that I did it and the bike was immediately better. whether i need 19s or 21s we shall have to see.

I move the forks up and down in partnership with perhaps jacking the rear till I can turn hard around a tree without losing the front end. low speed tight turning is about weight over the front. TC offset helps this but can't be its first priority. I also move the forks up and down so that I rail straight in the corners. it doesn't make as much difference as the offset does but it's very noticeable 2mm plus or minus.

having just made this engine plate change I may have to start all over again! I changed offset after hours of suspension work - time that the offset change could have saved. now I have all the offset and ride heights done and now the engine plates make me start again too!

as for the new FE570 I have sat here, well I don't have the suspension dialed in yet but already I can tell that that 19mm offset is almost too quick! I mean it falls in and weaves everywhere as I overcorrect the steering.

regards

Taffy

'as for the new FE570 I have sat here, well I don't have the suspension dialed in yet but already I can tell that that 19mm offset is almost too quick! I mean it falls in and weaves everywhere as I overcorrect the steering.'

My sentiments exactly ! You then have the dilemna of it deflecting sideways on rocky climbs no matter how soft the settings, yet as standard, its the best bike ive had for going thro mud ruts and changing direction at speed.
Maybe there is something in the 22s.
Ive found the further back the rear wheel is , the better it handles, way too flighty when forward. Am happy with 14/52 especially with rekluse , makes 3rd very usable.
No money to throw at it for the mo but im thinking of trying a progressive rear and even progressive in the front ?
Then worry about the offset.
Yes, i know ' A bad workman always blames his tools'! but i just feel there is a sweet spot still to be reached.

Anyway Taffy, i'm glad someone with bike savvy, riding on UK soil has the 570 . I will be watching intently on your progress so i can then steal your thunder. :cheers:

Ive found the further back the rear wheel is , the better it handles, way too flighty when forward.

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FWIW taking johns weights for his fx450 the weight distribution is fairly accurately, for the purposes of my internet dribblings, about 47% front, 53% rear

going for a more "normal" 49/51% distribution you'd need to move the rear back 58mm from the standard 1470 so a 50mm swingarm extension could be very nice and youd end up with a 1520mm wheelbase....

if you want 09 weight distribution on an 04-08 you need about a 150mm extension at the front.

''going for a more "normal" 49/51% distribution you'd need to move the rear back 58mm from the standard 1470 so a 50mm swingarm extension could be very nice and youd end up with a 1520mm wheelbase....''


Funnily enough, my 05 RFS ktm was 1520 wheelbase ( with my setup of gearing , fork position etc) and i found this to be nice . The ktms had the longer swingarm thro to the 08 when they shortened it and its the shorter swingarm they kept for the 09 newer bergs.
I'm pretty sure you could get a 1500 wheelbase out of the 09 bergs just from standard adjustments. The difficulty in comparing and equating again lies with the weight of the crank being rearward and higher by 150mm on the new bergs. Your then back to seat of the pants feel i guess.