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MAIN BEARINGS FAILURE, MUST CHANGE

Hey Taffy,

I want the discussion too, believe me :wink:

I'm trying to get a discussion moving further on to consider other aspects that must also be relevant......

The end float Dale specifies as .1mm - .2mm is for the roller bearing.

I for one would not install a crank with zero end float even with the ball bearings. There has to be some room for expansion at least.

Compare Dale's spec to the current Husaberg spec. of up to .65mm end float rising from and initial around about .4mm odd - it's interesting.

Also if Husaberg's spec. is now something like .45mm to .65mm on rebuild, who's building them up with none - that is going to cause tremendous strain, whatever anyone says?

And I also agree with the rather lacking input from the so called employed experts in this arena. But then that reminds me of a discussion we were having just a few weeks ago. My word, dejavu again :D

All the best,
Simon
 
well i had to have zero on my duke which was similar in some ways to the husey.the crank had to turn freely with no hint of a rumble.

another thing. let's say for an example that the two roller bearings needed to sit 200mm apart exactly in the cases yet when the bearings were sat on the crank and pressed up to the flywheels they were 200.5mm apart from each other: what do we do to identify that the inner races are too close togther and therefore denying us the float we need? do you measure the misalignment of the inner and outter races? i've never seen this in the equation but it will rob you of your float?

hope that makes sense? fact is, i used to slap the bearings in my duke from left to right HARD with a 'dead weigh't hammer and was encouraged to do it. this would take a tight point and move the inner or outter race to suit. however, can we do that when the bearings are so tight on the crank and in their housings?

so you see, this is in the application and not even from husaberg parts and design. it' up to the engine builder. i would imagine that it's all measurable across the side face of a bearing.

regards

Taffy
 
the one question i would be asking d.lineaweaver ,if he were to come online again,would be..
have you had any crank bearing failures,as per discussed ( being the inner race shoulder breaking off) after you have checked the alignment of bearings in the cases & set the crank end float to .2mm.
this is what we all need to know "yay or nay"
am i correct?
..weed..
 
popup said:
the one question i would be asking d.lineaweaver ,if he were to come online again,would be..
have you had any crank bearing failures,as per discussed ( being the inner race shoulder breaking off) after you have checked the alignment of bearings in the cases & set the crank end float to .2mm.
this is what we all need to know "yay or nay"
am i correct?
..weed..
Click to expand...

Absolutely, and ask him did everything else remain equal - he had kind of a habit of binning the counter balancer in all his engines - I don't wonder why. But is there a customer engine of his that still has the c/b in it.....anyone?

Simon
 
Taffy said:
i only ressemble that remark!

i
Click to expand...

By the way Taffy, there was nothing personal and no sniding going on with my remarks. It was a generalised statement.

I hope you know me well enough by now to know if I had anything to say I'd say it straight.

Simon :)
 
Another question:

On the 650 engine (some 550s) when you walk out of the shop with the bike there are 2 things you pretty much know:

1. The mains are likely to go pop;
2. The counterbalancer bearing is likely to go pop.

Particularly if you are going to do sustained high speed riding and or supermoto.

Of course there are some exceptions to this and engines that run excellently for some time.

I would sincerely like to know how many people have just removed the counterbalancer following a failure and everything has been hunky-doory ever since.

All the best,
Simon
 
Hi Simon,

Have a word with JoeUSA he has done that to his 550 but I think he did this from new.

Regards

Sparks.
 
sparks said:
Hi Simon,

Have a word with JoeUSA he has done that to his 550 but I think he did this from new.

Regards

Sparks.
Click to expand...

Thanks sparks, I know. Joe and I had a discussion about it at the time he made the decision as I was running my 01 650 without the c/b. I believe Joe had it done before even riding it. He also had it re-balanced by Dale to 75% balance factor whereas mine was 40%.

All the best,
Simon
 
Taffy,
If you recall, Dale felt immediate failures were to a lack of end play, but he removed the balancer because he felt that it caused an occilating vibration that took out the left bearing over time. Since KTM doesn't have the main failures or a crank mounted balancer, if they are using the same mains, Dale is probably right about the balancer vibration. Joe must have subscribed to this philosophy of Dales, because I also remember him taking the balancer out when the bike was almost new. Crank flex and bearing style was mentioned a little back then, but the main focus when Dale was around, centered toward the balancer issues. When I worked for Honda, I was impressed with the fancy equipment they had to isolate cause of failures. Lots of speculation among us, but KTM is the ones likely to have the resources to isolate this problem and rectify it. Don't understand why it is so slow forthcoming.
dan
 
of course si and i was pulling myself into the ring and not pushed with that one!

has anyone had the inside of the bearing housings measured? i know that you've had the housings checked for trueness popup but i woundered whether the internal dial gauge had been given an airing?

regards

Taffy
 
Do they 'balance' the counterbalancers on the crank, once assembled, before they are installed ?

You would only need minor defects in the casting process to create problems.
 
no i did not check the i.d of where the main bearings press into the cases,but i see no reason to, unless it is obviously on the loose side in which the bearing is likely to work its way out,or on the other side of the coin , where it is abnormaly tight.common sense will kick in & tell me if there is something not quite right there.
..weed..
 
dsducati said:
Taffy,
. Since KTM doesn't have the main failures or a crank mounted balancer, if they are using the same mains
Click to expand...

KTM do use the same mains- even the little 250SXF gets a set of NJ206s.

And KTM guys do suffer mains failures- not on the 450s 0r 525s in dirt use, but once you start talking 560s or 610s and supermoto use it seems mains failures are not unheard of.....

I think the SM bikes even get a "not the norm" roller/ball main config. compared to the standard RFS roller/roller config

Theres even been KTM guys seeking the answers on this site to the main bearing issue.

Just for comparo, the XR650 uses a 6308 on one side of the crank.....

Even most 400s/450s ie Gas Gas,Yamaha, Suzuki DRZ etc use bigger main bearings than a Husaberg 650. I think thats telling us something :wink:
 
ausberg ,just had a look on the *** bearing bearing site,on the 6308 bearing for the xr650,it has less load rating than the standard nj206.
nj206 45kn dyn.compared to 6308 42.5kn dyn.
size really doesn't mean anything when you compare a roller to a ball.
as with all the competition bikes,if they can get away with a smaller lighter bearing which can handle more load,thats the way they will be heading.
in an xr/dr ,who cares if the bearings weigh an extra 750g ,the bike weighs a ton anyway.
.http://medias.ina.de/medias/en!hp.ec.br ... *S6308_FAG
don't know if thats the way i send a link or not
if it doesn't work go to *** bearings and search 6308
cheers ..weed..
 
popup said:
ausberg ,just had a look on the *** bearing bearing site,on the 6308 bearing for the xr650,it has less load rating than the standard nj206.
nj206 45kn dyn.compared to 6308 42.5kn dyn.
size really doesn't mean anything when you compare a roller to a ball.
as with all the competition bikes,if they can get away with a smaller lighter bearing which can handle more load,thats the way they will be heading.
in an xr/dr ,who cares if the bearings weigh an extra 750g ,the bike weighs a ton anyway.
.http://medias.ina.de/medias/en!hp.ec.br ... *S6308_FAG
don't know if thats the way i send a link or not
if it doesn't work go to *** bearings and search 6308
cheers ..weed..
Click to expand...

Very good point weed, but consider this ?

The load ratings are very similar between the 2- a little in favour of the 206.

But I wonder how much more axial loading the 6308 could take- being a ball my guess is a lot more- especially as how a lot of the guys attribute the NJ206s failures to the thrust flanges cracking.

I understand a ball is a lot better suited to axial thrust loading than a cylindrical roller.

Dont qoute me on this, but I believe Husaberg and KTM are some of the only manufacturers to use a roller/roller setup- everyone else uses a ball/ball or a ball/roller

Even KTM go to a ball/roller in their SM engines......

A point to ponder- If we were designng the 09 Husaberg 650 right here and now, would we be speccing NJ206s for the mains, or looking for something a bit more durable/suitable??

I would gladly pick up say 750grms of main bearing mass if it meant they had a lot longer service life. :)
 
Hi all,

please excuse, but can anyone tell me in a few words what´s the trouble?

I bought a nearly new 2006 FE550 a few weeks ago.

Are the main bearings wrong???

is there a official callback or information from husaberg known?
 
Husa98 said:
Hi all,

please excuse, but can anyone tell me in a few words what´s the trouble?

I bought a nearly new 2006 FE550 a few weeks ago.

Are the main bearings wrong???

is there a official callback or information from husaberg known?
Click to expand...

Husa98,

Please don't worry about it.

Go and ride your bike, enjoy its power and handling and ifsomething goes wrong take it down to the dealer.

All the best,
Simon
 
AUSBERG said:
I understand a ball is a lot better suited to axial thrust loading than a cylindrical roller.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily but maybe.

You give me the actual load on the crankshaft during running (radial that is) and I will calculate for you the approximate axial load the roller can take.

How about that for an offer?

At least then we wouldn't have to speculate anymore would we?

Simon
 
Simon said:
Husa98 said:
Hi all,

please excuse, but can anyone tell me in a few words what´s the trouble?

I bought a nearly new 2006 FE550 a few weeks ago.

Are the main bearings wrong???

is there a official callback or information from husaberg known?
Click to expand...

Husa98,

Please don't worry about it.

Go and ride your bike, enjoy its power and handling and ifsomething goes wrong take it down to the dealer.

All the best,
Simon
Click to expand...

Hi Simon,

when there is a failure (wrong bearings) i will bring it down to the dealer in winter- and he or husaberg shoudl pay the bill.

And not in a few years and pay the bill by myself.

Thanks!
 
My mains in my bike were fine 5500kms it was the Rod in my 05 650 that gave out. No dounbt if that had go t worse the mains were next.
I changed my mains but they still looked good and were in spec etc....
 

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