MAIN BEARINGS FAILURE, MUST CHANGE

well the factory should beef up the specs and solve the problems . the factory should have done it years ago . :scream:

the factory gives us the consumer the issues when you pay your hard earned cash for their product . :scream:

what a fantastic bike ...if only they would act

popup said:

to ben at jbs.
you never thought about enquiring at mx composite rods.that way you can use their rod (32mm big end hole with no bearing) might even save you some room for stroking?

..weed..

Click to expand...

http://blog.jbsracingpage.co.uk/page/2/

ben tried it. go to his amazing blog/website.

regards

Taffy

hey has any one tried hybrid ceramic bearings to fix the problem of main Bering's going
they are 30 % lighter and 40 % stronger
just a thought
cheers Matt :?:

matt69 said:

hey has any one tried hybrid ceramic bearings to fix the problem of main Bering's going
they are 30 % lighter and 40 % stronger
just a thought
cheers Matt :?:

Click to expand...

No, we have a bearing that we are satisfied with.
We tried the ballbearing with a polyamid gage, 6206/C3TN9, did not work.

Specially now when all husaberg owner can find them at their local dealer, and dont have to go to a bearing shop and try out if the brand they support will work.

//Thomas

hi thomas

hopefully without getting too far off track here .....



the camchain you have recommended coincides with the time when i thought that the chains were weak from the factory? it was one of the first things i put in doc #1 as i thought it was knackered. the silver chain was my OEM and the dark chain the one lineaweaver recommended off 'an earlier model'.

so was it an IWIS i had or a different chain as OEM? and was it worn out or was it "2mm wear and all the adjustment has gone" i never checked the chain on the sprocket.

i realise we now have better guides etc.

regards

Taffy

cam chains

Taffy said:

hi thomas

hopefully without getting too far off track here .....

the camchain you have recommended coincides with the time when i thought that the chains were weak from the factory? it was one of the first things i put in doc #1 as i thought it was knackered. the silver chain was my OEM and the dark chain the one lineaweaver recommended off 'an earlier model'.

so was it an IWIS i had or a different chain as OEM? and was it worn out or was it "2mm wear and all the adjustment has gone" i never checked the chain on the sprocket.

i realise we now have better guides etc.

regards

Taffy

Click to expand...

I have seen a Regina chain as OEM on earlier models, up to what year i cant remember.
Then 2001 when all bearing problems started the chain was a IWS.
Later in 2005 or maybee late 2004 models had the DID chain.

I cant remember the life time on the older ones, but on the first Husaberg we had from 1992 ( a MX 499cc) we never changed any chains. The second Husaberg i had was a1995 600E, first with electric starter that always the sprocket that was glued to the balancer came loose, but we never changed the chain.
The IWS from our bikes last 8 years has been very good.
We had one failure 1month ago when the chain was cut due to that the stop for the Auto decomp came loose and got between the chain and the sprocket. Nearly ruined the engine block.
Go for the IWS chain every time and if you order to a 650-2003 with that part no you always get a IWS.
//Thomas

RE: cam chains

OK i just read this thing through again and my head feels the same as after I first read the fork tuning thread.

allthough mostly directed at multi cylinders this might be interesting

http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/crank-bal-c.htm

I like the explanation of the different operating scenarios effects on the forces applied to the rod and the crank.

regards
Bushie

Yep, Ive read the entire thing and it seems you want roller on one side and ball bearing on the other side.

well maybe, maybe not I have a 550 in my shed that failed early with that setup

the idea is good but perhaps the ball "locking" the crank in place is not such a great thing when the crank can still move on the ball inner when hot or if it takes a thump. in that case it can send end float to zero and kill the roller.

IMHO if using a ball on one side it should be locked in place with a collar betwen its inner and the drive gear and use a different seal. these parts are OEM berg I think. the outer can still move in the cases.. ive seen pics of berg "factory" bikes with screws to hold the outers in place, the KTM 530 has lil brackets to do the same and uses 72mm OD ball bearings. JBS racings hardened sleeves for the berg also fix everything in place without excessive crush, this fix is the bees knees just MHO.

if using a ball with a collar with one side "locked" then on the other side you could use an NU206 c4 the NU means no inner lip so endfloat is not an issue. the excessive crush that husaberg use to try and hold the outers in place is not as big an issue with C4.

while everything that shouldn't move still isn't really locked down properly it should have less problems than not using a collar.

all the failed rollers Ive seen and all the pics show that the spalliing and wear occurs near hard up against the bearing inner lip.

to me that means that regardless of how the engine was built something happened (read moved when hot) to make the endfloat go to zero. misalighnment could also cause this as besides the stress on the bearings from the misalignment itself, the axis of the piston and bore may not be perpendicular to the main bearings axis.. if so misaligned the thrust of the piston results in side loads on the bearing inner lips.

my endfloat changes all the time and not just cause I check it next time in Im using C4 lipped rollers held in with super duper high temp locktite on inners and outers , 16mm RHS and 20mm LHS.

just my take on the issue ATM, don't take me too seriously as its likely to change at any time

Hey bushie, if you need anymore info from that SKF manual you let me know as I think you're onto something here. I dont understand the mechanics of whole bearing tolerance thing ( probably like most here ) but if you can use it I'll scan & email it to you to work out what you need. Just PM me if you need different info on different bearings.

if someone has an early failed roller bearing journal where the spalling is not located hard up against the inner lip Id very much like to see a picture

bushy,maybe i see it wrong but spalling to me means the roller or balls running surface that has been completely worn out.my 1st mains failure(2 ball set up) was because of spalling,quite simply it should have been pulled down sooner.when the ball bearing mains had spalling it sounded like a worn out water pump in a car motor.it was that sort of sound,no knocking but just noisy bearing noise.
i take it the 550 you bought that had a mains failure,i bet would not be because of spalling.

knocking the shoulder off a roller main is a design fault or Assembly fault not spalling of the running surface.
the 2nd mains failure i had had no spalling on the running surface of the roller or bearing inners,lucky enough the big chunk that broke away fell in between the rollers & the motor locked completely up when i went to restart it.
.weed..

Click to expand...

the 550 had approx 20 -30 hrs on it. roller bearing failure RHS, LHS was a TMB ball. inner lip or sholulder of the nj206 is intact, its got wear marks but its not brocken.

spalling is right the way round and hard up against the inner lip. the location of the spalling shows that either the end float was zero or the crank was somehow running with the rollers hard up against the lip.

if the crank mainbearing axis is not 90 deg to the piston axis, the crank might run up against the lip.

more likely based on what ive seen is that things move around either from loose fits and engine vibes or impacts during a fall. whatever it is something happens to make the rollers run hard up against the lip. they shouldn't do that. my theory is that when in contact with the lip and helped with a bit of crank flex the little rollers can misalign or just bind on the lip and then skid on the journal. the skidding could start spalling.

what Im thinkin is that if the common link between all the low hour spalling falilures is that the rollers were contacting the lip then at least something makes sense

what would be great is if someone could post a pic of a low hour failure of a roller with spalling and an intact inner lip where the rollers were not running hard up against the lip.

I might have it wrong too, just another angle on it all.

This probably will not help at all but in the 70s Norton had *** (I think) develop a main bearing for the comandos called a superblend, from what I can gather its kind of a cross between a single row spherical roller and a plain roller bearing.

There is also a lot of talk here about shaft fits and bearing clearances etc. Most of this information can be found on the SKF website, for example shaft fits
http://www.skf.com/skf/productcatalogue ... stRadio=k5

when the "correct" shaft to bearing inner fit is obtained, the bearing inners still become loose on the shaft at operating temp.

increasing the interference fit or using loctite reduces the running radial clearence of the bearing even further.

I say even further becasue in the absence of a conventional mechanical locking system (like a crf for example) to retain the bearing outer race in the cases Husaberg is using excessive crush to hold the bearing outers in place. this reduces the running clearence by around 2 C numbers.

so... in most stock oem cases unless you use loctite on the inners and machine the cases or use C4 (or in some bikes C5) as reccomended by lineaweaver and others and/or use collars to retain the inner races the possibility exsists that your bearing inners can move and lock the crank endfloat at zero for the next cold startup.

Ive not yet seen a pic of a low hour spalling failure where the rollers were running away from the inner lip.

after seeing a lunched 550 with around 20 hours on it built with a ball LHS and roller RHS I think it is even more important to use collars to retain the bearing inners or when using a ball or sperical roller on the LHS the crank should be locked in place with a collar like just about all the jap bikes are setup.

That said there are hundreds of bikes built by guys with good reps and running without such a complicated setup as I suggest and running without problems so I may be OTT

warming up the engine properly to give everything a chance to move before reving it could be just as effective.

so maybe all this is nothing to worry about according to some and maybe Im worried about nothing but If i just blended in with the sheeple and did whatever everyone else did all the time Id not even ride a husaberg at all.

i use bearing lock on the outside face to bond it to the wall and not the floor of the cases. i also feel that unless you have a 650 all you need are a pair of good quality balls and a free running crank. agree with the interference fit of the bearings onto the crank and in to the cases. no need for c4 or c5 IMHO - that's going the wrong way.

regards

Taffy

Taffy said:

i use bearing lock on the outside face to bond it to the wall and not the floor of the cases. i also feel that unless you have a 650 all you need are a pair of good quality balls and a free running crank. agree with the interference fit of the bearings onto the crank and in to the cases. no need for c4 or c5 IMHO - that's going the wrong way.

regards

Taffy

Click to expand...

Ok David, and what íf you have a 650 engine?
Ball/Roller mix?

i still think a nice free floating ball mains is enough for a standard husey. if it was tuned and a 644 crank i'd be worried. the flex may ruin the roller right main so i would still go ball/ball but if i had a 628 i would go ball left roller right.

regards

Taffy

unless you have a 650 all you need are a pair of good quality balls

Click to expand...

hang on everyones telling me you need more balls the bigger the engine

whats your ideal radial play for the rollers taffy ?

radial play? do you think i'm in control of this situation or summink? i'm afraid to say that due to a lack of tools etc i'm still pressing my bearings into the cases after i've given the cases a little hone. as for the bearing to crank fit well that's something i can do little about i'm afraid.

regards

Taffy

ive read this whole thread and am so confused with all the different setups, i have also read the docs and it has 10 different scenarios, i have a 2007 fe550 the main bearings are NJ206ECP/C3HVC058 are they going to fail i have 55 hours on the bike.

next, when i change the mains what setup is best these days,

also a good berg mechanic in melbourne victoria australia?

thanks guys sorry for amateur questions.
mike

sorry to dredge up an old thread but.... today I serviced my bike and had metal particles and shavings on the magnet. I cleaned the magnet and strainer with solvent and noticed other metal particles the looked like brass . I measured the crank play with a digi vernier and got 0.23mm cold. ( tight ?) The bike has 58.8 hours on it and has run Motul 5100. So I goes and gets some delo 400 and and went out for a good thrash to see if I could blow it up, but it still goes well and doesnt make any more bottom end noise than my friends 650, but I'd say I'll be in touch with orangeberg directly to avoid ka-blamo motor.