Just follow the link for some pictures:
http://www.offroadforen.de/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25762
http://www.offroadforen.de/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25762
KTM(or is it Husaberg's new development??) new engine DOHC/S
- Thread starter maichusa
- Start date
It's not a new Husaberg or it would be in Yellow and Blue. The Berg R&D is still separate from KTM's.
Ok, but not to be offensive; what do they develop? I was under the impresson that Husaberg would be the "test/research" center for KTM. So in that aspect I thought we would see spy-pictures of yellow/blue instead of the orange "thingies". But the way I see it, Husaberg is last on the wish list. Maybe Beta will get to use a new tyoe engine before Husaberg gets one 
Joined Jun 2001
1K Posts | 3+
Berkshire, England
I'm sorry but I think someone's pulling your pinkies with those photos. That's no DOHC.
Yes, the location of the waterpump has changed but have a really careful look at the rocker cover, notice the one black round circle and also the shape of the rocker cover - it houses a single gear. now if there were 2 cams in there, they'd have to be very small and I'd like to see them because the casing is just not big enough.
As a comparison, look as the Yamaha and the size of housing 2 camshafts.
Nice try.
Cheers,
Simon
Yes, the location of the waterpump has changed but have a really careful look at the rocker cover, notice the one black round circle and also the shape of the rocker cover - it houses a single gear. now if there were 2 cams in there, they'd have to be very small and I'd like to see them because the casing is just not big enough.
As a comparison, look as the Yamaha and the size of housing 2 camshafts.
Nice try.
Cheers,
Simon
The reason for the small cover in the middle is the cams (DOHC) are chain driven to the base of the head, gear driven from that point on... hybrid.
~ Ken
~ Ken
I would agree with Powercell. KTM has been experimenting with chain, gear and the hybrid combo, and by the placing of the knockout plug and what looks to be casting for DOHC in the cover, I too think it to be a hybrid.
Interesting way to drive the waterpump, as an idler for the chain?
I would think that Sweden develops the technology and Austria produces it. Look at the new DOHC 250, and the engine is constructed like berg with cyl integrated into the cases.
KTM learned it from the Japanese. You do not have to reinvent the wheel, only refine it.
fryguy
Interesting way to drive the waterpump, as an idler for the chain?
I would think that Sweden develops the technology and Austria produces it. Look at the new DOHC 250, and the engine is constructed like berg with cyl integrated into the cases.
KTM learned it from the Japanese. You do not have to reinvent the wheel, only refine it.
fryguy
This is probably a question of money. Replace a cylinder lining should be cheaper than make a complete new cylinder. I do not know if they develop anything in Sweden at all. Husaberg does not even have their own quality budget. KTM seems to run everything.fryguy said:
The MotoGP engine KTM build, the 950 etc. They develop things in Austria. No doubt about that.
I probably steps on some toes but this far it has been the opposite. Main bearings, rocker arms/bearings etc.fryguy said:
Hi,
I don´t want to lean me out of the window,
but I also think that the Japanese are good at copying things.
But KTM also.
I heard rumours that Husaberg developed a new powerful 250ccm engine a few years ago,
but the budget KTM gave them was very low.
And now KTM uses this engine in the worldchampionship?...!
That´s really odd.
So I agree with frguy.
Mikst: there were no KTM EXC without Husaberg. KTM needed the development of Husaberg.
All they had in the 90´s was a tractor engine called LC4. Which obviously wasn´t bad but too heavy.
What do you think are the guys in Röfors doing right now? Only improving last years models?
I don´t think so.
I don´t want to lean me out of the window,
but I also think that the Japanese are good at copying things.
But KTM also.
I heard rumours that Husaberg developed a new powerful 250ccm engine a few years ago,
but the budget KTM gave them was very low.
And now KTM uses this engine in the worldchampionship?...!
That´s really odd.
So I agree with frguy.
Mikst: there were no KTM EXC without Husaberg. KTM needed the development of Husaberg.
All they had in the 90´s was a tractor engine called LC4. Which obviously wasn´t bad but too heavy.
What do you think are the guys in Röfors doing right now? Only improving last years models?
I don´t think so.
I’m just guessing. I think KTM will go towards the husaberg style cylinder on there RFS line of engines, and lose the extra weight & height of the separate cylinder assemble. Isn't the 05 SX250 RFS already this type of engine design? I'll make a wilder prediction! After they do the cylinder change, they refine the cylinder head to a dual cam configureation?
I know but it is a symbiosis.
KTM use things from Husaberg and Husaberg use things from KTM.
Yes, I have been told that the EXC R engine is a Husaberg copy but they improved the design. Not only copied it. During this process they probably learned a lot. You cannot avoid learning things when you work with something. Within a few years ago, who believed that anyone would be able to compete with the Japanese 2-stroke engines? For me, it seems that the KTM R&D is competent. KTM needed a new engine. They bought the competence and the pre work. What is wrong with that? Husaberg was not able to build bikes people wanted to buy. Today KTM has the money to carry out the development by them self.
I have been working with R&D for some years. Today you cannot tell where the development is carried out. You buy a Ford, Volvo, Jaguar, Mazda etc but you never know where a specific component is developed or manufactured.
This question will go on forever.
KTM use things from Husaberg and Husaberg use things from KTM.
Yes, I have been told that the EXC R engine is a Husaberg copy but they improved the design. Not only copied it. During this process they probably learned a lot. You cannot avoid learning things when you work with something. Within a few years ago, who believed that anyone would be able to compete with the Japanese 2-stroke engines? For me, it seems that the KTM R&D is competent. KTM needed a new engine. They bought the competence and the pre work. What is wrong with that? Husaberg was not able to build bikes people wanted to buy. Today KTM has the money to carry out the development by them self.
I have been working with R&D for some years. Today you cannot tell where the development is carried out. You buy a Ford, Volvo, Jaguar, Mazda etc but you never know where a specific component is developed or manufactured.
This question will go on forever.
I don´t want to struggle about the KTM/Husaberg question.
But I´m not sure if it really has advantages that Husabergs are made in Mattighofen now. I also think that Husaberg is forced to use KTM things.
It could become a question of time that
the head of Husaberg says: "Good bye KTM, we´ll estimate a new brand.
We want to produce our own bike."
I know, right now this is really unrealistic, because Husaberg all the time had not enough money.
I also don´t want to talk too bad about KTM. But I won´t say that the KTM exc engine is better or more developed than the Berg engine.
It doesn´t look like improvement, sorry. It´s bascially just: a bit different.
In my opinion the Husaberg engine (>2001) is more thought-out. Ok, they had some probs in details, but all in all I think I can say that.
And what do you mean with "compete with Japanese 2 strokes"?
Wasn´t it Joel Smets who was 3 times Motocross worldchampion on Husaberg?
Ok, the times have changed, today the technical standard is much higher,
but basically the Berg was a good alternative to Japanese motorbikes.
You´re right, KTM is good at selling and making advertisement. The hardenduro campaign wasn´t too bad, years ago.
A neverending discussion I think. Not everything is bad, but also not everything is good.
But I´m not sure if it really has advantages that Husabergs are made in Mattighofen now. I also think that Husaberg is forced to use KTM things.
It could become a question of time that
the head of Husaberg says: "Good bye KTM, we´ll estimate a new brand.
We want to produce our own bike."
I know, right now this is really unrealistic, because Husaberg all the time had not enough money.
I also don´t want to talk too bad about KTM. But I won´t say that the KTM exc engine is better or more developed than the Berg engine.
It doesn´t look like improvement, sorry. It´s bascially just: a bit different.
In my opinion the Husaberg engine (>2001) is more thought-out. Ok, they had some probs in details, but all in all I think I can say that.
And what do you mean with "compete with Japanese 2 strokes"?
Wasn´t it Joel Smets who was 3 times Motocross worldchampion on Husaberg?
Ok, the times have changed, today the technical standard is much higher,
but basically the Berg was a good alternative to Japanese motorbikes.
You´re right, KTM is good at selling and making advertisement. The hardenduro campaign wasn´t too bad, years ago.
A neverending discussion I think. Not everything is bad, but also not everything is good.
Joined Oct 2004
96 Posts | 0+
Italia
KTM >< Husaberg....
Business as everything.
KTM marketing is close to HD, Ducati types.
Husaberg was an interesting competitor... buy it.
What happens next, is about markets, managers, risks and marketing.
My 2002 FS is running great, and everyday more I appreciate the people behind it. My respect to all who invent these things .
FinMoto
Business as everything.
KTM marketing is close to HD, Ducati types.
Husaberg was an interesting competitor... buy it.
What happens next, is about markets, managers, risks and marketing.
My 2002 FS is running great, and everyday more I appreciate the people behind it. My respect to all who invent these things .
FinMoto
hirbman,
Neither do I but saying that all R&D in new products are made by Husaberg makes me a little bit ... impulsive. As long as we do not have inside information we do not know, or ...hribman said:
I have perhaps misunderstand you. We had a discussion about this earlier and I got the impression that the EXC R is based on the pre-01 engine? However, as long as you prolong the service life I consider that as an improvement.hribman said:
Today KTM build competitive 2-stroke engines. Is not it like that? This changes over the years but does not KTM build some nice 2-stroke off-road bikes?hribman said:
I agree with you.hribman said:
That is a good summary. No matter the brand, there are some competent people out there.FinMoto said:
Ok, let´s end this discussion. Peace.
Maybe you misunderstood me a bit. But my point of view is that always people think KTM is THE one and only offroad brand. :bow: That makes me... impulsive.
Anyway, sure, they worked hard and they deserve their success, no question.
There are always a lot of rumours and no one can really know what is true and what´s not.
We do not have any insider information, that´s true, but sometimes I get some informations,
maybe that makes it easier for us here, because the Austrians are speaking german.
I have got a good source for informations at the KTM importer Germany, and on several KTM festival some guys of the KTM staff talked also
a bit about some things I supposed before.
This new engine: just speculation. Right.
I´m a Husaberg fan, but I´m also not that blind and more a kind of an objective beholder who can value
some things. At least I try to be.
For example I liked riding on a Yamaha YZ 250F.
Finally I want to say that both of us should be happy that we have some fine european motorcycle brands which compete to the japanese.
So it will never be boring.
Maybe you misunderstood me a bit. But my point of view is that always people think KTM is THE one and only offroad brand. :bow: That makes me... impulsive.
Anyway, sure, they worked hard and they deserve their success, no question.
There are always a lot of rumours and no one can really know what is true and what´s not.
We do not have any insider information, that´s true, but sometimes I get some informations,
maybe that makes it easier for us here, because the Austrians are speaking german.
I have got a good source for informations at the KTM importer Germany, and on several KTM festival some guys of the KTM staff talked also
a bit about some things I supposed before.
This new engine: just speculation. Right.
I´m a Husaberg fan, but I´m also not that blind and more a kind of an objective beholder who can value
some things. At least I try to be.
For example I liked riding on a Yamaha YZ 250F.
Finally I want to say that both of us should be happy that we have some fine european motorcycle brands which compete to the japanese.
So it will never be boring.
Yes, and to get back on the DOHC issue; that was what the S in the subject line was for. I meant to type SOHC also but there wasn't enough room. My guess is they could have used the design from the Honda CRF?
Joined Aug 2004
531 Posts | 0+
CA, USA
maichusa said:
I'm not a mechanic or an engineer, but from the look of it, that's my guess as well
Cheers,
Brett
Joined Nov 2004
60 Posts | 0+
Stevenage,Hrtfordshire,uk
hello all
i may not be the most mechanically minded person here so i am trying to understand the thread as best i can. I think it is very important that husaberg maintain their own identity as rhats why i liked husaberg in the first place however i dont think that yhey should have to share this (with ktm if you look at this pic
FE250
If you look at the husaberg engine it looks very simalar to the newer ktms (excs) or does the newer ktms look simalar to the husaberg engine
hope ive made sense
bye for now tom
i may not be the most mechanically minded person here so i am trying to understand the thread as best i can. I think it is very important that husaberg maintain their own identity as rhats why i liked husaberg in the first place however i dont think that yhey should have to share this (with ktm if you look at this pic
FE250
If you look at the husaberg engine it looks very simalar to the newer ktms (excs) or does the newer ktms look simalar to the husaberg engine
hope ive made sense
bye for now tom
Joined Jun 2001
1K Posts | 3+
Berkshire, England
rosey said:
Hello Tom,
Don't be fooled by the spin surrounding the 250 you're talking about - it is made up from a pre-2001 Husaberg engine - there really is absolutely nothing new, nor special in it. Basically it points towards ktm utilising the principle of design of pre-2001 husaberg engines.
Ta-ra,
simon
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