Is my starter dead?

LeFrog · Jun 23, 2005

Not a car battery. The other same exact battery I have as a spare. I have installed a newer one in the bike. Both are the bigger Yuasa. The starter, when connected to either battery, would turn. It actually is a powerful starter, because it vibrated out of my hand and I almost dropped it the first time. The second time it was connected directly to the battery on my bike. In both cases it whirred.

I replaced the starter in the bike, replaced the allen nuts, checked all the connections, pushed the button, the solenoid clicked, no starter...

I tested all my wires and they have a resistance close to none. Tested on the battery, same exact voltage through these new wires as directly on the battery.

I can't figure out how to check the amps, sorry. I have to reread the multimeter's instructions.

The wires are all much larger than the original ones. I used 6 gauge battery cable with copper connectors to build them.

And yes, electricity goes through the solenoid when the button is pushed.

Now is it normal for the + connector on the starter to turn a bit?

Taffy · Jun 24, 2005

i've never seen a thread go on so long (along with other soimilarly named ones from nick) about one small subject.

gotta hand it to ya nick, you know how to keep a dead horse moving!

regards

Taffy

LeFrog · Jun 24, 2005

Thanks, Taffy but plenty tried to help and asked me questions I already answered. Not a big deal.

I just needed to know if anybody already had the same issue in the past.

Why would a starter turn when off the bike and not when in the bike.

husabutt · Jun 24, 2005

Taffy said:
i've never seen a thread go on so long (along with other soimilarly named ones from nick) about one small subject.

gotta hand it to ya nick, you know how to keep a dead horse moving!

regards

Taffy

Taffy we know you don't really mean it you fun loving prankster you. Oh by the way Nick will be vacationing in your town soon and would appreciate it if you could put him up for a month or two. It would be great. You and Nick could stay up to wee hours of the morning discussing starters, mods and things.

So is that a yes?

LeFrog · Jun 24, 2005

Sorry Eric but, unlike others, I don't tinker with my bike for the sheer pleasure of it. I do it to fix issues. Like when something is broken and stuff.

But anyway, I just bought an SM-14 starter on eBay, it is exactly the same as on the newer bergs, all I need is the bracket from our friend Dan and I'll be set.

In the meantime, that'd be cool for me to fix my little issue.

And I did not mean for this to drag forever either, I sincerely apologize to all those who may feel insulted in any way. :roll:

husabutt · Jun 24, 2005

Nick:

I am only joking

I always learn something from all threads.

Post away my friend!

Taffy · Jun 24, 2005

eric

you had me chuckling away nicely there!!! :lol: :lol:

good luck nick i'm just pulling yer chain as well sir!

entente cordial etc ...

regards

taffy

risky1 · Jun 24, 2005

Hey nick, at least you have the balls to ask and tell when you don't understand. and put up with taff's constant beating you about the head and shoulders!

believe me... it does serve a purpose. others (myself included) are learning quite a bit.

JoeUSA · Jun 24, 2005

Hi nick,

From what you have posted, I suspect an internal short to case on your starter.

But, just to make sure I have to ask you to tryr something.

A. In the above tests, did you use the starter button on the bike or did you just touch the positive battery cable to to the starter terminal when the starter was both in and out of the bike.

B. How did you ground the starter housing to the negative pole of the battery in the bike while doing the starter out of the bike test? 'Was it by just touching the starter housing to the engine?

C. Did you have the negative pole of the battery properly grounded to the bike engine or frame while doing the in and out of the bike tests?

D. And did you use the starter button with the solenoid connected to the button and to the battery and the terminal on the starter?

Please try to answer the above for us!

Then maybe we can help...

Joe

LeFrog · Jun 24, 2005

JoeUSA said:
A. In the above tests, did you use the starter button on the bike or did you just touch the positive battery cable to to the starter terminal when the starter was both in and out of the bike.

I did with and without going through the solenoid. When the starter was out, I used the connector already on the Pos and I used one of the Allen bolts and a nut to attach a wire to the starter ground. Then I touched the battery connectors and the starter whirred.

When in the bike, I tried with the pos wire touching the battery pos directly and also through the solenoid, with the button pushed and no whir. The battery has two grounds: the regular one that touches the frame, behind the battery, and one that I added and which connects to the starter bracket.

All these wires are homemade with 6 gauge battery wire and copper terminator which were pressed hard with a vise. But the problem appeared before the new wires were added, except for the new ground wire, which was added before the problem happen. It actually solved the issue the first time, as the starter was lacking power.

B. How did you ground the starter housing to the negative pole of the battery in the bike while doing the starter out of the bike test? 'Was it by just touching the starter housing to the engine?

New wire running from battery neg to starter bracket, right under bracket, at the junction between the engine frame. I added a washer under the other bolt. I am thinking about fixing the ground between the starter and the bracket now.

C. Did you have the negative pole of the battery properly grounded to the bike engine or frame while doing the in and out of the bike tests?

Yes. I have two grounds. And the horn and signals work fine as well. Solenoid clicks as well.

D. And did you use the starter button with the solenoid connected to the button and to the battery and the terminal on the starter?

Yes. Solenoid clicks, multitester shows there is way over 13v going through and that there is barely no resistance. I also tested all my wires with the multimeter to make sure there was no resistance and in all cases I could not detect any resistance at all.

Thanks for your help !

wildbill · Jun 24, 2005

I don`t know about you but if something works not in the bike but will not in the bike it might be something not allowing the starter to turn in the bike.Are you sure everything is meshed in right? Might be your problem.Take your time. My bike is kickstart only :lol: Good luck and I hope this sheds a little light.

LeFrog · Jun 24, 2005

Well not even a whirring noise from the starter. I was thinking about something preventing the starting motor from turning but then I would hear at least a humming noise from it, but I don't

risky1 · Jun 24, 2005

Hey froggy, you might not hear anything from it! like i said before, when i had my valves adjusted wrong and the starter would not turn against the compression. there was no sound! it would start to crank or crank over once and the come to a halt. no sound. the motor would not hum or make any noise. I heard the solenoid click but that would be it until i brought the rest of the way through the stroke by using the kick start.

so if you have something not meshing right and intermittently preventing your starter from turning the motor i would say that it may be a possibility

after i re adjusted the valves it will spin the motor, albeit a bit slow unless i pull in the manual decomp.

so again if you really belive that you have exhausted your electrical possibilities, it is time to look for something mechanical. so through that new starter in you bought on ebay and see if that solves it. if it doesn't pull that side cover off and start digging!

Taffy · Jun 24, 2005

nick

just chucking a bit more in the pot here fella but you need to get the bike starting sweetly on the kickstart as well you know! good carburation, good igniton timing, nice clean plug, and everything working sweetly! bike starts first time on the boot etc.

if you ever have that carb down again do check that the emulsion tube isn't worn or the needle. the other thing is the size of the choke jet.

a bike should start and idle sweetly for about 45 seconds on choke. if it starts and then after a few seconds the revs rise it means the choke jet was too small and if the bike 8-strokes immediately then it's too rich!

regards

Taffy

LeFrog · Jun 24, 2005

Yes, I know, Taffy.

Well, the starting motor is dead. It would not work off the bike on two different batteries.

I guess it was it's swan's song when it roared to life the last time I tried.

Good thing a few of these starters are laying around ebay for a few dollars.

By the way what type of starter is the newer, bigger model? The SM-14 is the standard, if I am correct?

LeFrog · Jul 3, 2005

Thanks a lot to those who tried to help but the starter has been replaced.

I bought an SM-14 on eBay. The one I got is from a GSX-R600 and they are the exact same model as on the bigger, later 550s and 650s.

Thanks a lot to Dan @ Motoxotica for doing all he could so I could get the bracket before the week-end.

And no, the new starter does not make the bike start cold. Still have to use to kick start it.

BundyBear · Jul 5, 2005

There is a thread started by a bloke in Tasmania (I think) who used a GSXR600 starter. Apparently he had no joy & came to thew conclusion that he thought it might be different inside to the berg. Fond the thread & have a read. If you do find the GSX starter is OK, leave a post there for others.

Also, do not try to crimp power lugs oto wires with just a vice. A proper crimp tool swages the lug down onto the wire. Soldering them on seems OK though.

Thanks, BW.

Taffy · Jul 5, 2005

the thread is in electricals and it's by that tasmanian devil 'scully'. the starter was off a CBR600 i believe.

regards

Taffy

dsducati · Jul 5, 2005

Lefrog,
Haul that cantankerous Berg down here to Yuma some week end and I'll look at it for you. Prepare to buy some beer in El Gadones Mexico if it ends up a success though.

Might even lose a pound or 2 cause it is friggen HOT here.
dan

LeFrog · Jul 5, 2005

Well the starter works fine. The starter motor from the GSX-R600 is exactly the same as on the later, bigger bergs. Yes, the other one in that thread was from a CBR600.

It seems that Mitsuba is not really good at part-numbering its starters and that there are a bunch of different SM-14s: the shorts ones, the long ones, the ones with the bracket just under the "knob" in the back (the ones we need), the ones with the bracket at the bottom (for the Yamahas), etc... A search on eBay Motors for "Mitsuba" will display a lot of starters. But trust me on that one, if you want to save money: GSX-R600 motors are the same.

If you know what you're doing I guess you can remove the bottom end of the starter that you're taking off and putting it on the new starter.

Well thanks for the advice on the connectors, they work fine, but I guess I will end up ordering new ones eventually. My cables are a bit bulky and they prevent the battery cover from being put back into place.

DSDucati: thanks for the invite, my friend. I'd love to come one day but it takes me 2 hours just to go from East Mesa to the other site of PHX metro.

BUt thanks for the new word: "cantankerous". Did not teach me that one in high school back in France.

Is my starter dead?

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LeFrog

Taffy

LeFrog

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JoeUSA

LeFrog

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Taffy

LeFrog

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