Is my starter dead?

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LeFrog

Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
2,713
Location
Mesa, AZ
Started happening on the trail: the starter went dead all of a sudden, and came back to life once, then no work.

Once in my garage, it crank for one second then went dead again.

Now the solenoid clicks and nothing happens. I checked the connections all is fine.

Voltage reading:

Battery: 13.6 (YTS7Z)
Solenoid left pos to ground: 13.6
Solenoid right pos to ground (button pushed): 13.1 then rapidly descending (.1v per second)
Solenoid connections: 11.4v (when ze button is pushed)

Either my starter is dead or I need to learn a bit more about how a motorcycle operates :)

Also on the "wiring harness" chart, what is the big "G" and what is the big "M"?

Thanks for helping me, I'm still learning...
 
Take a good jumper wire and run it from the positive battery terminal and touch it to the post on the starter. The starter should spin. Try it several times. If it works every time, you know you have an issue with the solenoid or wiring from the battery,through the solenoid to the starter. you are esentially by passing the solenoid and wiring.
Didnt you replace those wires yet??

300 posts in less than 3 months vs. 600 in 3 years....your catching up quick 8O
 
The starter does not churn when connected directly to the battery pos. No spark either.

I had that issue before, actually. After removing the starter to replace the battery and putting it back, then it started churning again. I guess some inner wiring is loose and riding vibrations made it worse.

Yes, I have new all new connections as far on top of the solenoid.

Maybe it's time for that starter upgrade after all...

And no, I am not in a contest for the highest number of posts, I am in a learning period, trying to get all the information I can gather. :D

I can't compete with Taffy anyway.
 
Hey LeFrog,

There is still a possibility that the starter is not the fault. The grounding of the starter to the engine must be good and clean as well as the engine grounded to the frame. Even if yours is the newer type with the ground wire running down to the starter. Try the above test again but run a new temperary ground wire too. A good set of jumper cables work well for this. Connect the red to the battery pos. and the other to the starter connection first, then connect the neg. to the battery neg. and then touch the other end to a good clean part of the starter motor body. If still no crank, replace the starter.

Hope this helps,

Volvonut
 
If you want to PROVE the starter faulty and leave nothing to guess, do the above test.

Volvonut
 
As I said twice, I did do that test and no crank.

I will redo my connections again but I suspect the starter has something bad inside.
 
I am not getting mad I am just saying I did the test twice and it did not work. Then tonight I totally removed the starter, connected it directly to a battery, and it worked. I had connected it directly to the battery, but while it was in the bike and did not work.

I decided to check all my connections, realized one connection on the battery had gone loose, fixed it, reconnected everything and now ... no go. Multimeter says there is 13.3v (button was pushed a few times before that) going in the battery... I did the test between the battery pos and the battery ground.

Is it like a common scenario? Is it possible for the engine to lack power so that it cannot crank the bike because there is too much mechanical resistance?
 
LeFrog said:
Is it like a common scenario? Is it possible for the engine to lack power so that it cannot crank the bike because there is too much mechanical resistance?
Click to expand...

do you mean for the starter to lack enough umph to get the motor spinning? I would say common? possible? yes, there are many things that can prevent the starter from actually turning the motor over.

I think that in one of my earlier posts. After i had changed the battery, starter clutch, and adjusted the valves the starter would spin the motor once (sometimes not even once) and then do nothing. no clicking no spinning starter, nothing. Come to find out i think i had adjusted my valves 180 degrees out and that made the starter have to try and force the starter motor to turn against, as berger put it, "a brick wall of compression"

if you really believe that you have exhausted your electrical possibilities, it is time to look at your mechanical ones. that means pulling that rocker cover, inspecting the decmp device, pull the side clutch case cover and inspect the starter gears and such. pull the clutch and starter gears and hit the magic button and see if the starter spins... while there is no resitance and while it is installed on the bike. that would be my next step. but then i am new at this also.... so i defer to someone with more knowledge
 
But in this case no churning at all... It's a bit bizarre.

Also when I connected it directlry to the battery, I really enjoyed the sparks :roll:
 
i think that wherever i lived in the states i would come over and sort your problem for you. i might even pay for it myself just for the peace!

there doesn't seem to be a definitive amnerican dealer that you all hark on about to say "take it there" however.

well, good luck and to be quite honest, an ordinary motor technician could have a look at it for you and 'suss' it out.

please try this sometime.

regards

Taffy
 
Hey LeFrog,

I just reread the entire post and might have an idea, if the starter turns when connected to the battery and not when it's installed on the engine, you could jumper between the two big solenoid posts. Just because a solenoid clicks doesn't confirm it can actually pass enough current. I have analyzed your original readings and I'm not sure exactly what test is what, so bare with me.

When you complete the circuit by jumpering between the two big posts on the solenoid, the sparks will fly due to high current, those same sparks occur inside the solenoid each time the solenoid engages and disengages. There could be a voltage drop occurring in the solenoid. Again, if you have done this already then lets just say this post will be for future readers. :)

Take your meter and set it to DC volts and put the leads across the two big solenoid posts and then hit the starter button. Any reading higher than about .2 to .3 volts indicates a problem. A reading of 2,3,4,5 etc. volts indicates that you just found your problem. Voltage drops are the key! If you can find where the voltage is dropping, you got it!

Hope this helps,

Volvonut
 
Volvonut, I have actually done that test but I guess it's lost on top of the thread. There was a minute loss at the solenoid, as you say, a portion of a volt. When I test between the starter + and the ground, push the button, my reading is over 13v. It should crank, it doesn't :cry:

Taffy: when you own a dirt bike you have to know how to fix it yourself, especially when you trail ride and you can end up stuck miles away from your truck. You can't expect a technician to drop from a helicopter. I guess that in Britain you can go to a farm nearby and they invite you for tea and scones (whatever these are).
 
I am still trying to help and understand. Your wording and mine must be the problem. I am trying to get you to understand that there is a difference between voltage and amps. If I was to do your test as mentioned above, (starter + to ground and 13v with button pushed) I would prove nothing except the wire is not completely cut. In other words, I could cut every strand of wire in your positive cable except for 1 and the reading would be identical as above. Again, this reply is for others for future reading. I feel that if bike owners learn voltage drop testing, which is different than looking for the presents of voltage, they could fix there own electrical problems much faster and easier. I commend your attitude about wanting to learn how to fix it and learn as much as you can.

I would love to talk to you on the phone or chat room as I might be able to make myself more clear and understand you better if I'm missing it alltogether. 937-226-2123

Volvonut
 
have you tried sticking a screwdriver between the starter and positive post onthe solenoid? i did this and besides the sparks flying it did the job well.

in the end though it was a dodgy wire at the ignition switch!

regards

Taffy
 
Yeah I did that and no sparks flying... Yet there is a good amount of electricity, maybe too much resistance. I redid all my connections. They use 6-gauge wire with copper connectors at the end maybe there's something wrong with them. :oops:

I understand that electricity is measured in volts and amps. My multimeter is toast and only measures volts. I need to get a new one. Which one do you guys recommend?
 
Fluke has a new series of meters that are much cheaper in price than ever before. They are the 110,111, and 112. The 110 won't do Amps, the 111 and 112 will. The only difference between the 111 and the 112 is the 112 has a back light on the display. So the best true RMS meter for the money, in my opinion would be the 111, which should be about $100.00 USD on the net. If you use your meter to do Amps, put an inline fuse (at a smaller rating) in the red lead. This will save you money as meter fuses are usually expensive. If you only use your meter a couple of times a year, then there is nothing wrong with a $30.00 Radio Shack one.
 
Why don`t you if the starter is in question pull it off and check it. If it is good then you will know something else is wrong if not then you have the thing off and then you can troubleshoot it and go from there. Keep it simple.
 
did we read that you pulled the starter and hooked it up to a car battery and it worked? and then you put it back in and it stopped working?

I don't know anymore....mama :cry: I am so confused.... :(
 

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