Husaberg Starter Draw

Did you buy the YTZ7S battery? I also bought the Optimate charger and noticed the same thing. From my experience is that when I left the battery connected to the charger all the time I had less reserve cranking amps. I now leave the bike off the charger between rides and it works alot better.

Sir
Your drain is likely to be around your solenoid secondary connections. They need stripping down and cleaning.
I moved my solenoid under my seat.
Your engine is not starting on the button probably due to the pre 04 Husaberg leccy start syndrome. search the forums to find out more.

gud luk
Ady

Put a volt meter on the battery while it's running, you should see the volts rise up to about 14 volts if you rev it up. If not charging check for a broken wire up by the headstock. You will have to cut back the wiring harness cover approx. 5-7".

starer draw?

Hi People... just discovered your most excellent forum. Congratulations on compiling such a knowledgeable bunch of people and data. Extremely interesting reading.

If I may be so bold, a question to Ryan: did you or anyone else ever get to the bottom of your reported slow cranking and poor battery capacity?

I have the exact symptoms you described back in August last year. In my case ('01 FE400e), I've got the upgraded gel Yuasa, the Optimate, and a good charge rate with the engine running. All decompressors are well set up, as is the ignition timing and valve clearances. I've a CBR600F4 starter motor (top tip by the way, and for the princely sum of 5GBP from ebay!), heavier gauge starter cables and a new solenoid. In short, everything is wonderful... except for the slow cranking and what appears to be very, very low battery capacity. The battery checks out OK (load-tested at the supplier by me) and it was fully charged before first use to avoid any 'gel local issues'. I've even tried a less sophisticated battery charger and a second battery of the same type to no avail. Even with the engine fully warm, I get (at best) two presses of the button before the cranking speed is so low I fear the onset of the next ice-age... Fortunately it rarely needs more than two kicks, hot or cold, to get me underway, but I will not stop until I fix the bugger!!

I'd love to hear if you (or anyone else) has made any progress on this.

Cheers... Paul

RE: starer draw?

what temperatures are you guy's living in as this will dramatically change the characteristics of the battery.

on my '03 FE400e I replaced the battery with an odyssey PC310 and have no troubles at all.

have a look at the CCA rating on your batteries too. The original is only 60 whereas the odyssey is 310 for the 1st 5 - 10 seconds the 100 CCa after that.

Ps the temps here are no lower than 20 deg C and get up to 35 deg C

RE: starer draw?

Carbonone and Tinwelp
I bet when you press your button and your revolutions are slow, the motor stops at the compression stroke.And that it turns easier when the bike is fully warm !!
If so - Take your plug out then try it !!! Amazingly turning faster ??
Your auto decomp device is not working properly ! .... check out other posts for a fix.
On my last post on this subject a 100% cure was found by using the 04 auto-decomp device on the earlier models.
Read on guys
Let me know how you get on
Regards
Ady

RE: starer draw?

Ady has a really good point.

ferret and Ady, thanks for your responses.
Temperature is not an issue (around +15C at the moment). Battery is quoted at 170A (CCA) and is the latest version of the forum recommended YTZ7S. Yes the instantaneous speed is slower on the compression stroke and yes of course this is much less pronounced with the 'plug removed. I've modified the auto-decompressor for more lift than standard (the old one was significantly worn) and it is very much set up and working correctly (I even fitted a new spring). Worth noting that if I just crack open the manual decompressor, the cranking speed improves very slightly as would be expected; open it a bit more and the speed increases again... but even when fully open, the cranking speed is still far too slow to make any sensible attempt to start the engine, irrespective of the capability of the SEM ignition.

Then there's the issue of only having two attempts (max) before the response to the button is woefully diminished. The starter motor draws less than 40A (I have yet to unearth my current-clamp to measure it, so this is a guess based on playing around with fuses!). The battery should be able to supply 80% of its CCA rating for 30s... and it does when on the bench after a full charge with the same Optimate.

I'm going to see if I can record any sensible speed data during cranking (kick and starter motor) using the CDI charge coils to shed a little light on the subject. If I find my current clamp I'll take some current data from the starter too. Should make for an interesting correlation.

Has Carbonone (or other) posted anything else on the subject elsewhere? I cannot find anything substantial in other threads, but the forum lists are enormous so I may have missed something when searching...

Thanks again.
Cheers... P

Tinwelp Sir
Yes, this has been discussed in great length on other posts in the past.
Your next step then, is to get a set of 'jumper leads' connected from your car battery to your berg battery....
Leave them connected for a minute or so - then hit the button.
Faster ? Faster than normal ?? Fast enough to start it ??
BTW. You are of course starting her only when warm off the button.
Your model, even with the CBR s/motor is designed to be kicked off from cold.
So. If your motor still turns over slow. Try the manual decompressor. If still not much better and all results where only marginally better than with the bikes own battery only.... You know your battery is ok.
Your then looking for iether mechanical drag (or similar) - not my field. Or insufficient supply getting to the s/motor from the battery (my cup of tea, i'm an electrician).
So, working on the latter.
You must check your chasis earth for the s/motor is good. Then, again, using your jumper leads from your car battery, connect negative to your s/motor chasis and push firmly onto your positive terminal on your starter motor.
BE CAREFUL - YOU WILL GET A BIG SPARK & DO NOT TOUCH THE CHASIS WITH YOUR RED LEAD !
At this point the s/motor should spin like mad and fast enough. If not ... iether your s/motor is cream crackered or you have mechanical drag (others could advise !!)
If it does spin fast enough, then i would start by testing my starter relay.... but one thing at a time.

Good luck
PS. Where in France are ya... R ya british ?
Me & Froggy are very fond of the place.

Hi Ady, thanks for your suggestions. Unfortunately though, I've been there and tried that already: cranking was a little faster and appeared to be reliable on the few occasions that I tried directly to the starter motor. If I connected the jump-leads to the battery however, things were a little slower. This led me down the route to changing the solenoid (I had a spare), increasing the gauge of the starter cables and adding a ground cable between the battery -ive and the starter housing. Now I get the same result if I connect the jumper battery directly to the bike's or to the starter terminal... but without the jumper battery there's no difference!

I agree that high friction is the likely culprit and I intend to investigate when I find the time to fit a new cam-chain and tensioner... but the 'odd' performance of the battery is still holding my attention for the moment. I've no experience of gel cells, so I don't even know if this behaviour is normal. Maybe I'll try a good-old liquid-acid battery...

I've stripped the CBR starter motor (and the original Husaberg, too) and found nothing wrong. There was a surprizing amount of drag from the brushes, but this was the same on both. There was some wear to the plain bearing at the commutator end, so I've ordered a needle roller to replace it. I'll chamfer the brushes while I'm sorting the bearing, but I doubt this will have much effect.

Yep, kick-start only from cold. I know it will start that way!

British... exiled to France for the last few years and loving every moment. We live in the mountains 30 minutes North of the cote d'azur, between St Tropez and Cannes. If you ever get down this way, let me know; I'll force you to drink tea and show you some of the best trails.

Thanks again.
Cheers... P

Nowthen P... (Paul/Phil/Pete ????)
Sorry to keep asking you to do things youve already tried, but i need to know if you did the last tests with the plug out ie. Jumper leads directly to s/motor with the spark plug out. Potentially you could have an autodecomp style problem and an electrical problem combined.
If then, its fast at the s/motor but slow from the battery... its electrical. Do you have an ohmeter? Your looking for continuity of all joints supplying power from the battery. You may also have an earth leakage/drain. This can be tested by a meter by measuring the voltage fully charged then leaving the ignition switched on. Two days later, check again. Down? Down a lot ? Say from 13.3 down to 12.1 for example. Thats a fault !!!
To check its not your battery...Disconnect battery from bike. Charge again, take voltage, check again 2 days later... should remain the same ie, 13.3
Let me know how you get on
Ady

Ady,
in short, both. Plug in or out, cranking was a little faster with a jumper battery. Since I modified the cables it makes no difference if I connect the jumper battery in parallel with the bike's battery at the battery terminals, at the solenoid terminal (with battery ground) or at the starter terminal directly (with battery ground OR engine ground). I'm confident there's minimum loss in the cables and across all terminals.

Couldn't find any earth leakage to speak of with the ignition switch off. With the switch on I have a drain of around 50mA (I've a hard-wired TrailTech speedo)... disconnect the speedo and this drops to zero, so everything looks to be OK.

Fully charged I measured 12.8V on the bench; the same when installed, and 12.7V with the ignition on (speedo load). After the battery had been on the bike for two days with the ignition off, I measured 12.7V ignition off, 12.6V ignition on. After cranking the engine for about five seconds with the ignition on, I measured 12.5V immediately after cranking and 12.6V after ten minutes. All measurements were at the battery terminals.

Still haven't found the time to play at measuring instantaneous crank speed (work and family duties... ). When I do, I'll post the data.

Any other thoughts?

Cheers... Paul

Hi Paul
It seems quite conclusive to me then, although i think you will not agree.
It's your starter motor !
Why? Well, if, with your plug out using jumper leads directly to it, it still doesnt spin fast enough for you it must be worn or knackered.
Anyone else reading this may care to comment !?
It seems that everything else is ok electrically.
When you do get the time - testing your crank speed with plug in and plug out may be helpful to confirm or deny my theory.
Good luck with it Paul
I think thats all i can help you with.
Regards
Ady
PS. I have a holiday home in Poitiers... a bit cold there at the moment though.

Hi Paul,

You might try dismantling the stater motor and check that the brush plate has got a good earth to the body.

Also check for oxidisation between the + terminal of the starter and the + brush arm inside.

Regards

Sparks.

Ady,
as usual, thanks for your intelligent comments... and yes, I sort of agree! I would be completely convinced if it were not for having tried two starters: the OE and the Honda. Honda is subjectively a bit better (another reason to measure cranking speed), but then again it would be having invested a whole £12 and a full hour in the subject...

Any idea how the power of the motors compare? I'm sure I could probably calculate the theoretical difference between the two, but electrical machines are not my strong point. Do you know off-hand? I'm sure I'll probably find a webcalculator if I look, or if that fails I may have to resort to my bookshelf!!

Poitiers is 900km ride away... maybe a bit too much for a weekend 'pass-out' from the boss! Although we may be heading over that way in the Summer...

Sparks,
good question. I've stripped both of the motors to see if there was anything amiss, but I did not measure resistance between the brush and ground or the terminal. Didn't see any corrosion worth speaking of. I'll look again at the OE motor which is in the process of receiving a needle roller bearing instead of the plain bush at the brush-plate end of the rotor. I was going to finish this tonight, so I'll let you know.

Thanks again to all.

Cheers... Paul

Now Paul

Any idea how the power of the motors compare?

Click to expand...

Sorry, i don't know. Just that they both do the job.
I have had one other thought though, that may prove my theory:-

On your first post you commented how you could only get two sensible attempts at starting her off the button before the battery drains.....
So. This time.... Battery fully charged. PLUG OUT AGAIN !! Try it, once, twice, three, four ???? times.
If the battery holds up, much better like this. It again points to the starter motor.
Afterall, for 5 quid, you cant expect a brand new one.
Good luck
Ady