HUSABERG/KTM EFI TECH BULLETIN/UPDATE

Starting the bike periodically does nothing except generate large amounts of condensation inside the engine. Letting the bike tickover to full operating temp with a few tweaks of the throttle will not get rid of this condensation. A run of at least 10 miles under load is needed.

Agreed!~

BlueDevil said:

Question, aside from all this, is if my battery dies, can i still bump start it or am I totally dead in the water? I didn't know if the fuel pump would prime the system (pressurize) and so I"d be stuck? I'm getting a battery tender, some fuel stabilizer and will be calling my deal Monday to see what they will do for me under this "recall" you've written about here.

Click to expand...

If the battery is totally dead or shorted you are screwed. Shorted is pretty unlikely. I always carry a pair of motorcycle jumper cables, chances are somebody you are riding with will have an e-start bike.

Back to the subject at hand. I am under the assumption that Husaberg must have changed venders on there tanks, fuel pumps and possibly injectors in 2010. There is no question that fuel is an issue, but it seemed to be much less of an issue for the 2009's.

For all of you who are just starting them once in a while letting them idle, then shutting them off when you asume they are warm enough, there is a problem with that. I can't remember the name of the article I read, but years ago, I read an aviation article about how a low hours aviation engine that had been treated exactly that way by their owners. Basically, when the engine is not run enought to heat the oil to full operating temperature, it increases condensation inside of the engine, the condensation gets worse each time the engine is partially warmed up and shut off. Basically, it was the temperature of the oil that was important, and the length of time the oil remained at temperature had to be long enough to eveporate any oil it had collected.

When moisture collected in the oil, two things get introduced to the engine. One is obviously moisture that will cause light rust inside of the engine, and item two is a corrosive acid. It seems that the chemical reaction between the engine oil and the water creates some sort of an acid which can cause serious issues internally. The article went so far as to reccomend that a person not purchase an older plane that was treated this way and that had not been flown regularly where the engine could not reach full operating temperature and clear all condensation out of the crankcase.

Personally, my daily commute to my job is less than a mile from my home, and I've noticed that when I ride just back and forth to work without riding any longer distances (especially during the winter months) my Husabergs oil will start getting milky on the underside of the filler plug. That was confirmation enough for me. I make it part of my routine now to ride the bike at least the ten miles once a week. Since I've started that, no more milky looking oil. My co-worker experienced the same thing with his Husky.

I would like to comment on not only my information that was placed on the forum, but also some of the members comments. I am a Husaberg dealer that has been dealing with Husaberg since 2008. Therefore, I have been involved with the EFI bikes from the get go. The information contained in the post above is based on my experience and knowledge. It was intended for my customers and not to be used as a means to build my business, but to educate my customers. One of my customers asked if they could post it here on the Husaberg Forum and I said, yes. I want to be clear; there are many folks out there that are much smarter than I am. What I am good at is listening to what the experienced and educated technical people that I come in contact with have to say. The purpose of the information in this post is to relay what I have been told and learned. So, let's take the items one by one.

1. The problem that we have is that today's fuel is crap! Also, most of us, haven't been very careful with our fuel cans and we are responsible for much of the debris that is causing the injectors plugging up. Bottom line! Not Husaberg's problem, but they are trying to help each of us learn and create a better/more reliable system considering what each of us are doing or not doing regarding our fuel. So, for those of you that think that Husaberg/KTM are fixing a problem they have, you are wrong. They are helping you deal with the extremely difficult fuel situation that we are currently in. They are not fixing a problem that they have, just helping you.

2. As far as only being willing to pay for the 2011 models, that is something that I understand. Again, remember that this isn't a fix, just an update to help you. Labor for Husaberg having dealers update all 2009/2010 models would be very expensive. The retail of the kit is only $38.99 and gives you 3 filters, a reusable clamp, wash cap set, and a new oring. I really don't think that it will break the bank for those of you 2009-2010 Husaberg owners. I will offer this. Each Monday we have 20% off Monday Madness on our website. http://www.actionmotorsportsktm.com The kits aren't on the site, but if you call Kris on Mondays, at 940-627-1655 he will extend the 20% on each Monday for orders for the kit. Just mention that you saw this on the Husaberg Forum. That should help you with the costs.

3. I also would like to give a slight change to the post. Fuel treatments such as Star Tron are highly recommended by KTM/Husaberg and have multiple benefits for your motorcycle/ATV whether injected or carbureted. It isn't that KTM/Husaberg are promoting this brand, but Fuel Treatments in general. Obviously, KTM is a company that has strong relationship with Motorex. We at Action Motorsports are recommending Star Tron.

4. "Fuel Injectors needing replaced at 20 Hours." This is a very safe, conservative number and isn't posted or printed anywhere that I have seen. The problem is fuel is crappy! Bottom line! Not Husaberg's problem. But, if you are a person that is racing every weekend and want a feeling of security, you should replace your injector every 20 hours. I personally have been riding Husaberg's since late 2008 when they arrived and never have replaced an injector......EVER! So, do you need to.........NO! Just a conservative number. KTM/Husaberg have an injector cleaning and servicing program that every dealer can use. They have an injector cleaner/flow tester in Ohio and provide a service for dealers to send in injectors to have them cleaned and serviced. This tool cost them around $3000.00 and can open the injector to allow a cleaning solvent to be pushed back and forth through the injector. They also replace the O-ring on the injector when doing the service. Not sure what all dealers charge for cleaning injectors, but here at Action Motorsports it is $59.99 and that includes shipping to KTM and back to Action Motorsports. So, buy one injector and just rotate your spare through your dealer and get it cleaned. Then you can replace them periodically. I will be at the Ohio KTM corporate headquarters next week and will be getting a hands on experience with this tool. Can't wait!

5. There are sources for Ethanol FREE gas. I am told that Chevron, in non-metro areas, doesn't always have Ethanol. Also, marinas or boat dealers are Ethanol Free. But, that doesn't eliminate the benefit of Star Tron. Even with no Ethanol, there are good reasons to use Star Tron.

So lets recap! Husaberg is trying to help us the end users of their products deal with fuel issues out of their control. There is no manufacturer problems. Just a company spending a great deal of money to help their customers. I think we should all commend them for their efforts. I spend 10 years at a Japanese Motorcycle Company's corporate headquarters, in a technical position, and I can promise you that they would bury their heads in the sand and act like there is nothing wrong. Thank You KTM/Husaberg for your great business model!!!

Please feel free to contact me at Action Motorsports!

Craig Martin
940-627-1655
www.actionmotorsportsktm.com
[email protected]

Sorry, I'm not buying that KTM/Husaberg line "It's "Bad Fuel." REALLY? The same fuel, with the ethanol, has been around since 2008. If you design a system that can't reliably use the fuel that your customers are going to be using, and then want to claim all of the problems are the "Bad Fuel," you're not being very honest about your products reliability or the quality of your engineering.

Now, if your gonna try to blame the customer's dirty fuel cans or dirt placed in the customer's tank by the customer, you're not really dealing with reality. Most of your customers have been fueling their vehicles for years without getting chunks of dirt through their fuel systems. I for one have been driving a fuel injected automobile since 1985. Never have I had to replace even one injector. A few fuel pumps, some seals and o-rings when the ethanol first came out, but not injectors. My current fleet of fuel injected vehicles, including the Husaberg, is three. One is a 1989 and the other is a 2005 driven 300,000 and 120,000 miles without replacing one single injector.

Yeah, I'm sure the Husaberg's fuel injection can't be flawed, it is just the first Fuel injected bike that I know of where every owner dumps dirt and water in the tank while they fuel them just to cause their fuel pump and injectors to fail so they can be stranded miles from home in the wilderness and practice their survival skills. Yep, Husaberg owners all have a deep desire to become Survivor Man, that's why they buy the Husaberg then dump all that dirt, extra ethanol, and water in the tank. Then suddenly, without warning, you can be in a survival situation miles from home. I wonder why all of these Type A survivalists only select Husabergs and KTM's to disable; I mean, why not a Honda, they're fuel injected too? :idea:

Action said:

I would like to comment on not only my information that was placed on the forum, but also some of the members comments. I am a Husaberg dealer that has been dealing with Husaberg since 2008. Therefore, I have been involved with the EFI bikes from the get go. The information contained in the post above is based on my experience and knowledge. It was intended for my customers and not to be used as a means to build my business, but to educate my customers. One of my customers asked if they could post it here on the Husaberg Forum and I said, yes. I want to be clear; there are many folks out there that are much smarter than I am. What I am good at is listening to what the experienced and educated technical people that I come in contact with have to say. The purpose of the information in this post is to relay what I have been told and learned. So, let's take the items one by one. ..................

Click to expand...

Yo, Craig! You .... :rock:

Cheers! E-Ticket

brian011952 said:

Sorry, I'm not buying that KTM/Husaberg line "It's "Bad Fuel." REALLY? The same fuel, with the ethanol, has been around since 2008. If you design a system that can't reliably use the fuel that your customers are going to be using, and then want to claim all of the problems are the "Bad Fuel," you're not being very honest about your products reliability or the quality of your engineering.

Now, if your gonna try to blame the customer's dirty fuel cans or dirt placed in the customer's tank by the customer, you're not really dealing with reality. Most of your customers have been fueling their vehicles for years without getting chunks of dirt through their fuel systems. I for one have been driving a fuel injected automobile since 1985. Never have I had to replace even one injector. A few fuel pumps, some seals and o-rings when the ethanol first came out, but not injectors. My current fleet of fuel injected vehicles, including the Husaberg, is three. One is a 1989 and the other is a 2005 driven 300,000 and 120,000 miles without replacing one single injector.

Yeah, I'm sure the Husaberg's fuel injection can't be flawed, it is just the first Fuel injected bike that I know of where every owner dumps dirt and water in the tank while they fuel them just to cause their fuel pump and injectors to fail so they can be stranded miles from home in the wilderness and practice their survival skills. Yep, Husaberg owners all have a deep desire to become Survivor Man, that's why they buy the Husaberg then dump all that dirt, extra ethanol, and water in the tank. Then suddenly, without warning, you can be in a survival situation miles from home. I wonder why all of these Type A survivalists only select Husabergs and KTM's to disable; I mean, why not a Honda, they're fuel injected too? :idea:

Click to expand...

We have seen a big degradation in fuel quality over the last 2-3 years ... it seems to be getting worse all the time.
I have a '99 Honda VFR 800FI w/ 45,000 miles on it ... and a '95 VFR with 38,000 miles on it ... and never had *any* fuel injector issues. The last two years I have really seen the idle, performance, exhaust smelling "rich", etc. on my Viffer. (BTW, I am pretty religous about using only Chevron Supreme w/ Techronline).

I just recently put in Star-Tron into the tank thinking it couldn't hurt. And that if it had no impact, I would look next at changing/cleaning the injectors and possibly the fuel regulator. But it did! Within 1-2 tanks, I noticed a much smoother idle, easier starting, exhaust didn't smell so "rich" .... and an overall "turbine-like" smoothness to the overall running.

While I don't think Star Tron is a "miracle snake oil" but it is definitely worth trying!

So why I am telling you this? I had zeo issues until the last year or so. I did nothing else but add a fuel cleaner/stabilizer and had fairly dramatic results. Conclusive results? Can I *prove* anything? No.

Another data point: another peep reported that the local news stationg in Phoenix (?) had done ethanol testing on local gas stations. While most were right at the 10% mix ... several were closer to 12-15% ... and one tested out at 25%!

So yah, gas quality has slipped in my opinion. E-Ticket

FWIW, my '10 Husaberg FE 390 is now at 2460 miles and 139 hours.
It has even been on a trip with Baja Bound Adventures so it has even seen "milk jug gas." lol. I use a gas tank sock filter and religously run Chevon Supreme (contains Techroline).

And 'Inga' has never missed a beat. Always starts first push of the button, cold or hot.

That being said, if I keep her, I *will* be installing a Golan FI fuel filter and starting using Star Tron once in a while.

Cheers! E-Ticket

Here is a web site that tracks where you can get ethanol free fuel:

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

I've used ethanol free fuel treated with Sea Foam ever since I took delivery of my FE570S, and no problems so far.

Add a good inline filter like the Golan E-Ticket mentioned, or the standby Can-Am quad filter. A big part of the problem (if not the entire problem) is the stock in tank paper Mahle filter is simply inadequate. User experience has shown this to be true. KTM/Berg needs to update the in tank filter to a better unit. Today's gas is indeed crap, but adequate filtration and a bit of owner care can get us by.

Been using Techron in the bottle and Stabil (in the Marine flavor) and a full tank of gas (to minimize moisture absorption) for long term storagae duties for years. Any thoughts on Stabil vs. Star Tron vs. Sea Foam, or is that an oil thread like can of worms?

Guess I am lucky here in high and dry Colorado. No doubt guys in the humid areas are really suffering with this stuff.

Injector plugging from dirt is caused from poor service procedures (poor work habits)
A fuel injector is quite susceptible to clogging and plugging problems from the fuel chemistry. Gasoline contains substances like olefins (olefins are long chain polymers, also known as polyethylene) and diolefins. These substances get accumulated around the pintle valve of the injector and nozzle and restrict the fuel flow. Many a time, when your vehicle does not start immediately after a repeated attempts or performance is poor, there is a possibility that your fuel injector is starting to lose nozzel pressure or plugging. Clean fuel injectors are mandatory to good performance!
Be careful what you believe
Here are a few articles to get you started on understanding problems with ethanol and fuel deposits in injectors. A vehicle that is used everyday has less problems than one that is used twice a month, like a bike!!
One more time, be careful what injector cleaner products you use many of them will damage (soften the insulation) the coil winding insulation in the injector causing the injector to fail.
http://www.chemsystems.com/about/cs/new ... %20FCC.cfm
http://www.chemistryexplained.com/Fe-Ge/Gasoline.html

BTW, does anyone know what filtering capability the internal-tank Mahle filter is?

10, 20, 30 microns?
Good only for twigs and sticks?

Thanks! E-Ticket

Mahle filters are fitted as OE on many new vehicles from various manufacturers and are not some cheap after market item. The KL97 used in the Husa tank is also used in some Ducati models (I picked up a spare from a local Ducati dealer and it was also cheaper). Can't actually find the specs for this filter but it's more than upto the job IMO. The only 'problem' I can forsee with it is that it will block quickly if you're clumsy when filling the tank and you're getting the usual off road rubbish in there.

How often should the factory cone filters be replaced?

Wierus said:

I've only ever used BP ultimate, which is a 98 octane fuel with no ethanol in my berg.
170 hours on the bike, and the fuel pump / filter has been flawless.
Im not totally sure whats its like in other countries but this fuel is readily available at almost all petrol stations near me.
Has anyone had these issues with their bike while using high octane 0% ethanol fuels?

Click to expand...

Interested too. Small airport nearby sells 98 octane with no ethanol. I live and typically ride at 5000ft or higher.

Any fuel experts out there that can give some input? Is that octane too high for the bike ('10 fe450) and/or elevation?