Joined Apr 2002
3K Posts | 11+
Phoenix Arizona
I would suggest downloading the "hard start guide" and going through all of the checks there first.
The guide can be found in the downloads section over in the left margin of the page under "resources"
Give that a try first and let us know how you get along.
There is also alot of usefull information in "the doc" found under "resources" as well.
The guide can be found in the downloads section over in the left margin of the page under "resources"
Give that a try first and let us know how you get along.
There is also alot of usefull information in "the doc" found under "resources" as well.
Hey Mr Jim make sure your carb is clean, you have new gas, highest octane available, and that you have spark.
If you have all this, all you need is a good kick and that's part of what you need to learn.
It does not start like a 125. You need long good kicks from the top to the bottom.
If you have all this, all you need is a good kick and that's part of what you need to learn.
It does not start like a 125. You need long good kicks from the top to the bottom.
Joined Mar 2006
30 Posts | 0+
hi again..
I have now checked most of the wiering, and cleaned the carburator. i Have also changed the ignition lock, cause it was crap!
let me start from the beginning, regarding my problem!
In the mornings, when the bike is cold, the starter often just makes a summing noise, then it can suddenly get a hold and drag the engine throug its 4-strokes, then it stop, then turning the engine for a couple of seconds, before it stops agiain, all this without the engine starting .. then it can suddenly starts summing again...
i then start the engine with the kick leaver. I have to kick approx 10 times before anything happens, and it starts....
Then after driving for about an hour or so, and then stopping the bike, the starter always work (does not make any summing noises, but drags the engine around), but the engine seldom/never starts.. the starter just drags then engine around, untill the power runs out..
BUT then, when I removed the petrol tank yesterday, and tryed to start it with the el-start (without the tank on - disconnected), it started right away...!!! just hit the button, and afther a coupple of drags=brumm!
I stopped it, and started it again with the el start = no problem...
I then put the tank back on, connected the fuel lines, and drove off.. afther ca 10 minutes, i stopped the bike, and then I started it again, with the el-start... and it still started!! I did this a coupple of times within the next hour, but then it suddenly would not start with the el start anymore, it just draged the engine around, untill the battery was flat! then it didn`t start again with the el start anymore.... except three times to day, when i was complaining to a friend about the start problem, of course... suddenly it started with the el start... Three times, before it would no longer start, (just started draging the engine around again, without starting) and i had to kick it started (4-5-6-7 kicks)!!!
What in gods name shall i do, to make it start EVERY TIME, with the El-start...
Maby one teori is that the carburator got more air thrue the hoses when the petrol lines was dissconected, or something!!??
Why is the starter often just wiinnniinng in the morning, when the engine is "cold"?? for then to just dragging the eingne around without starting!?
I have downloaded the "hard to start guide", and has followed some tips, but I do not have the brain capasaty to go true every single step....
help will be so insainly apprisiated, it is hard to discribe
hope you understand my problem, and mu explanations...
(Sorry for all the miss-spelling by the weeiiii;-) )
I have now checked most of the wiering, and cleaned the carburator. i Have also changed the ignition lock, cause it was crap!
let me start from the beginning, regarding my problem!
In the mornings, when the bike is cold, the starter often just makes a summing noise, then it can suddenly get a hold and drag the engine throug its 4-strokes, then it stop, then turning the engine for a couple of seconds, before it stops agiain, all this without the engine starting .. then it can suddenly starts summing again...
i then start the engine with the kick leaver. I have to kick approx 10 times before anything happens, and it starts....
Then after driving for about an hour or so, and then stopping the bike, the starter always work (does not make any summing noises, but drags the engine around), but the engine seldom/never starts.. the starter just drags then engine around, untill the power runs out..
BUT then, when I removed the petrol tank yesterday, and tryed to start it with the el-start (without the tank on - disconnected), it started right away...!!! just hit the button, and afther a coupple of drags=brumm!
I stopped it, and started it again with the el start = no problem...
I then put the tank back on, connected the fuel lines, and drove off.. afther ca 10 minutes, i stopped the bike, and then I started it again, with the el-start... and it still started!! I did this a coupple of times within the next hour, but then it suddenly would not start with the el start anymore, it just draged the engine around, untill the battery was flat! then it didn`t start again with the el start anymore.... except three times to day, when i was complaining to a friend about the start problem, of course... suddenly it started with the el start... Three times, before it would no longer start, (just started draging the engine around again, without starting) and i had to kick it started (4-5-6-7 kicks)!!!
What in gods name shall i do, to make it start EVERY TIME, with the El-start...
Maby one teori is that the carburator got more air thrue the hoses when the petrol lines was dissconected, or something!!??
Why is the starter often just wiinnniinng in the morning, when the engine is "cold"?? for then to just dragging the eingne around without starting!?
I have downloaded the "hard to start guide", and has followed some tips, but I do not have the brain capasaty to go true every single step....
help will be so insainly apprisiated, it is hard to discribe
hope you understand my problem, and mu explanations...
(Sorry for all the miss-spelling by the weeiiii;-) )
Joined Jun 2001
1K Posts | 0+
Pasadena Ca.
Hi mrjimh,
Give this a try. I have to do it on my 04 550 when the outside temperature is near freezing and the engine is cold, or if it has just been siting for a few days in 50 degree F or colder weather.
1. Put the choke on.
2. Pull on the handle bar decompression lever and hit the starter button. It should spin the motor. As it is spinning gradually release the handle bar decomp lever. It should keep spinning and start within a dozen revolutions or so.
3. Release the choke after a minute or so, but keep it running at a fast idle with the throttle until the engine is warmed up.
If the engine is warm and the E-start will not spin the engine, go directly to step 2.
Let us know how this works for you!
When you have the tank off next time check the leads that go to the big common grounding ring underneath the frame air box, just behind the CDI box.
Regards,
Joe
Give this a try. I have to do it on my 04 550 when the outside temperature is near freezing and the engine is cold, or if it has just been siting for a few days in 50 degree F or colder weather.
1. Put the choke on.
2. Pull on the handle bar decompression lever and hit the starter button. It should spin the motor. As it is spinning gradually release the handle bar decomp lever. It should keep spinning and start within a dozen revolutions or so.
3. Release the choke after a minute or so, but keep it running at a fast idle with the throttle until the engine is warmed up.
If the engine is warm and the E-start will not spin the engine, go directly to step 2.
Let us know how this works for you!
When you have the tank off next time check the leads that go to the big common grounding ring underneath the frame air box, just behind the CDI box.
Regards,
Joe
Sometimes it will indeed start on the button, especially if you ran it the day before and if the weather is warm.
But your year model unfortunately will not start all the time on the button and I would just keep it for REstarts.
Consider yourself lucky, because my e-start only works when I stall while riding and I pull the clutch and hit the button, then it will work, but otherwise my 2001 is a kick start only.
10 kicks sounds like a lot. You need to concentrate on giving good strong kicks that will give a lot of rpm.
It took me more than 6 months to learn to start that bike and I made sure to share the frustration on this board.
But your year model unfortunately will not start all the time on the button and I would just keep it for REstarts.
Consider yourself lucky, because my e-start only works when I stall while riding and I pull the clutch and hit the button, then it will work, but otherwise my 2001 is a kick start only.
10 kicks sounds like a lot. You need to concentrate on giving good strong kicks that will give a lot of rpm.
It took me more than 6 months to learn to start that bike and I made sure to share the frustration on this board.
Joined Mar 2006
30 Posts | 0+
hi, and tnx for the advice...
the de-compression cable and handle is disconnected form my bike... I just bought it...
But I will re mount it, and try your tips...
regarding the CDI .. is this the unit placed under the tank, mountet on the frame!? in case, i just "greased" the connectors, and "tightend" the connector kabels...
but will check the ground also...
Ill be back with status..
mvh
jh
the de-compression cable and handle is disconnected form my bike... I just bought it...
But I will re mount it, and try your tips...
regarding the CDI .. is this the unit placed under the tank, mountet on the frame!? in case, i just "greased" the connectors, and "tightend" the connector kabels...
but will check the ground also...
Ill be back with status..
mvh
jh
Yes, it's mounted under the seat. Make sure you use dielectric grease.
You can also make sure that all the ground wires connected to the frame
dont have rust. A bit of sandpaper will fix that right up.
You can also make sure that all the ground wires connected to the frame
dont have rust. A bit of sandpaper will fix that right up.
Joined Mar 2006
30 Posts | 0+
yep yep.. checked the ground, and it seems to be ok... everything is grounded!
I have mounted the decompression handle and wire, but have not been able to drive the bike etc, to test if the decompress leaver will make the engine start with the el-start, when the engine is warm.. (because of snow and ice!! ;-)
But the thing that bothers me the most now, is the fact that the starter engine just suuuummmssss when i try to start the engine, when it`s cold....
I terrible terrible noise...
any other ideas for why the starter imitates an electric saw (bjuuuuummmm) when it is cold, but drags the engine around just fine when it is warm/has been driven for aprox half an hour!????
i have a recording of the starter noise, but wasn`t able to upload it... anyway, i guess you know the sound.... ;-)
I have mounted the decompression handle and wire, but have not been able to drive the bike etc, to test if the decompress leaver will make the engine start with the el-start, when the engine is warm.. (because of snow and ice!! ;-)
But the thing that bothers me the most now, is the fact that the starter engine just suuuummmssss when i try to start the engine, when it`s cold....
I terrible terrible noise...
any other ideas for why the starter imitates an electric saw (bjuuuuummmm) when it is cold, but drags the engine around just fine when it is warm/has been driven for aprox half an hour!????
i have a recording of the starter noise, but wasn`t able to upload it... anyway, i guess you know the sound.... ;-)
Joined Jun 2001
1K Posts | 0+
Pasadena Ca.
mrjimh said:
When the engine is cold the oil is very thick and creates a LOT of drag on the engine. There are 2 clutches in the engine that affect engine starting.
The first one is a 'Gear Wheel Slip Clutch' part number 250 283-01. It is designed to slip and prevent breaking teeth on the starter gear wheel if the engine back fires when you are starting it. The clutch was set too soft on some of the 01-03 bikes, and slips too easily, preventing the starter from spinning the engine in the cold. Some of the riders have had to replace this clutch.
The second one is the 'Free Wheel Mechanism' that is some times called a one way clutch. It engages when the electric starter is used, and transfers power from the starter constant mesh gear train to the engine. It also engages if you try to turn the engine backwards, in which it drags the starter motor backwards. Over time and lots of use, this clutch wears and starts sliping and needs to be replaced.
If the auto-decompression device on the cam is worn, and it could be that it is, it must be replaced with the latest model that will fit your bike.
I think the 04 model will fit, but others on this web site that really know should speak up!
One of the previous posts talked about a +12 volt wire being connected to the CDI box. The wire on the CDI you want is white and it connects to a white/blue striped wire in the bike harness. That white/blue wire is connected to the handle bar starter switch wire that provides power to actuate the starter solenoid. Like he said, make sure it is connected.
Try the handle bar decompression lever and let us know if the engine spins then for you, and starts.
After you get these things squared away, the bike should always E-start when warm, but will still require the foot when cold.
In 04, they came out with a more powerful starter, for the 550 and 650. It can be back fitted to your bike but is expensive. You have to replace the starter bracket also because the starter is longer. retrofitting this starter will get you a bike that will E-start cold above freezing if you have the proper oil in it.
Regards,
Joe
Joined Mar 2006
30 Posts | 0+
hi again
Been fiddeling with the bike, trying several things to get it to start easyer, without much luck... hav downloaded the hard to start guide, but found it a little to complex for my poor brain...
what did u meen by:
"if the auto-decompression device on the cam is worn and it could be that it is, it must be replaced with the latest model that will fit your bike."
Could this have anything to do with the fact that it is very hard to start!?
One of the clutches/wheels in the engine is probably worn, as you have pointed out, but when its warm, it should anyway be easy to start... had to kick 20-30 times to start it today... aitch....
i took of the housing on the right side of the engine, to chech... i guess that is were the dynamo is placed or something? anyway, the "wheel" in the middle, with the wiers on it, seemed somewath worn! could this have anything to the with it`s havy starting tentence ;-)??? maby the spark is to weak? any suggestions on how to check this!?
and one more thing; if any one has a Turn Signal Rele, and wants to send it to norwat, speak up!! ;-)
Been fiddeling with the bike, trying several things to get it to start easyer, without much luck... hav downloaded the hard to start guide, but found it a little to complex for my poor brain...
what did u meen by:
"if the auto-decompression device on the cam is worn and it could be that it is, it must be replaced with the latest model that will fit your bike."
Could this have anything to do with the fact that it is very hard to start!?
One of the clutches/wheels in the engine is probably worn, as you have pointed out, but when its warm, it should anyway be easy to start... had to kick 20-30 times to start it today... aitch....
i took of the housing on the right side of the engine, to chech... i guess that is were the dynamo is placed or something? anyway, the "wheel" in the middle, with the wiers on it, seemed somewath worn! could this have anything to the with it`s havy starting tentence ;-)??? maby the spark is to weak? any suggestions on how to check this!?
and one more thing; if any one has a Turn Signal Rele, and wants to send it to norwat, speak up!! ;-)
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Joined Jul 2001
3K Posts | 1+
El Sobrante, Ca. 94803
You mentioned hot restart being improved minus the fuel tank.
Such is an indication of fuel percolating in the carburetor.
Insure to turn off the fuel valves when stopped.
Such is an indication of fuel percolating in the carburetor.
Insure to turn off the fuel valves when stopped.
Joined Dec 2002
759 Posts | 0+
western NC
When starting my bike I ease the kickstarter right past TDC. Then with choke on, no gas I kick all the way through. I also keep the clutch lever pulled in. ( Thanks Parsko ) Take your time or I have to with my bike. My bike usually starts in 3 kicks and runs with the choke on. I think everyone of these bikes starts a little different so it will be a learning curve. Just have to get used to it. Hope this helps.
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