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how do I know how lean is too lean

F

ferret

Joined Sep 2006
174 Posts | 0+
townsville australia
I have just installed a Haltech AFR meter (Air Fuel Ratio) on my '03 fe400. I have an exhaust leak where the headers join the middle piece wich will be giving me a false reading but that will be rectified very shortly and before I play with my carbie.

The AFR on Idle is reading spot on stoich (14:1) but as soon as the throttle is touched the slightest bit the AFR reads off the chart on the rich side. My dilema is I only get about 140 km to a tank and my zorst is covered in black soot at the muffler tip (and at the leak). I have perfect throttle responce when it's warm but it's really sucking the fuel.

I realise a rich mix will keep the engine cooler and the average temperatures here are 20 deg celcius in winter and about 30-35 in summer so a cooler running bike is helpful. But what will the bike do when it's too lean at WOT (Wide Open Throttle) before it destroys itself?

do I look for stalling, backfireing......?

please help.
 
Hi Ferret,

To do this correctly you will have to put it on the dyno to get the correct readings under load. The only thing you can set is the idle and from what you have said this seems to be OK.

You could set the main jet by just looking at the colour but if you get it on the dyno you can see what is happening at any throttle opening and RPM.
But if you havn't got access to a dyno then all you can do is set it up by the seat of your pants. Failing that you might find some settings in the owner's doc what other people have found to be successful.

Regards

Sparks.
 
good point I forgot about a dyno. I have access to a car dyno, will that work the same?

We usually tune cars in 2nd or 3rd but what geat do ya dyno a bike in? will the knobblies work on there?



could be a fact finding mission this arvo.
 
Ferret

when lean they seem gutless from certain revs up. yes it revs but it doesn't accelerate the revs with any speed and therefore pull.

i can't understand why you can't try one then the next. is it really such a hard job to do? 500 yards round a field?

regards

Taffy
 
Taffy said:
Ferret

when lean they seem gutless from certain revs up. yes it revs but it doesn't accelerate the revs with any speed and therefore pull.

regards

Taffy
Click to expand...

sweet that's the spot on answer I was hoping for as I have a paddock about 1km long wich I use for checking things.

thanks mate.
 
Unfortunately what you have purchased is a "Narrow Band" O2 Sensor kit which shall be of little value. Said sensors are only accurate over a very narrow range near 14.7:1 AFR.

Sorry.

Dale
 
actually it's the wide band designed for petrol, methanol, deisel and lpg. I'll try get a pic for ya.


here's the job, comes with a wide band O2 sensor otherwise if going on a car you can use the standard narrow band O2 sensor.

Haltuner
The new Haltuner is a fast and easy way to visualize the tuning of your car. Using your built in O2 sensor or one provided in the kit, you can display the current reading on the Haltuners 30 LED display. With the Haltuner hooked up to your car, you can see the results of the cars computer in real time.







The display is divided up into three sections representing lean, stoic and rich. The colours change to indicate which section you are in. Each section has 10 LEDs to provide a useful reading of your O2 sensor.
 

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ferret said:
actually it's the wide band designed for petrol, methanol, deisel and lpg. I'll try get a pic for ya.


here's the job, comes with a wide band O2 sensor otherwise if going on a car you can use the standard narrow band O2 sensor.

Haltuner
The new Haltuner is a fast and easy way to visualize the tuning of your car. Using your built in O2 sensor or one provided in the kit, you can display the current reading on the Haltuners 30 LED display. With the Haltuner hooked up to your car, you can see the results of the cars computer in real time.







The display is divided up into three sections representing lean, stoic and rich. The colours change to indicate which section you are in. Each section has 10 LEDs to provide a useful reading of your O2 sensor.
Click to expand...

Insure a minimum of "Five" wires come from the O2 sensor. The four wire units are sold as an encoded wide band and remain inaccurate over a wide range, just the same they are reffered to as "Widew band".

If you paid lerss than $450.00 US it is likely the impostor.

My Autronic system was near $1800.00 US, The DynoJet near $500.00.

In any event, do not tune for the instrument, tune for performance then confirm with an accurate instrument. If you trust your instrument, you now have a reference.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Dale
 
yeah we also have the flashy version we use when tuning cars, I think it was $650 but yeah mine is only for an indication not exact measurements but when they read off the scale ya know it's a little rich :D. I'll keep ya updated as we chewed thru all our gas on the mig making some turbo manifolds for a couple cars (including my turbo V8 Gemini). So when the next bottle comes (hopefully today) I'll weld the pipes together and see how she reads.
 
ferret said:
yeah we also have the flashy version we use when tuning cars, I think it was $650 but yeah mine is only for an indication not exact measurements but when they read off the scale ya know it's a little rich :D. I'll keep ya updated as we chewed thru all our gas on the mig making some turbo manifolds for a couple cars (including my turbo V8 Gemini). So when the next bottle comes (hopefully today) I'll weld the pipes together and see how she reads.
Click to expand...

Hi Ferret,
Am I then to assume you were indeed using a four wire "Wide-Band" ?

Thank's
Dale
 
Okey dokey last night we welded up the leak in my zorst and checked the afr with our flashy digital meter. on idle the afr is 12:1, full throttle is 9:1 and under hard engine braking it's 14.5:1.
For those not 100% sure it's air (12 parts) to fuel (1 part) at idle. By memory (could be wrong) Stoich (where ya want it) is 14:1.

since this is as rich as it is do you think it can be rectified by a tune on the needle or more likely need re jetting?
 
ferret

now you've gone this far you aren't allowed to stop!

you now have to modify the carb how joeusa mentions in the hyperlink available to you in the doc. suggest if worried, that you get another carb to play with.

new atomiser and needle. check the slide for play. PM joe for support if required.

regards

Taffy
 
thanks mate.
When I got the bike they gave me 2 spare jets and a spare atomiser needle and said"ya may need these".

for those interested The manual says to have the mixture screw 1.5 - 2.5 turns out. When I did an initial check to see where it was, The needle was 1/4 turn out :eep: . So for the hell of it while the bike was running I closed the needle right up and she still ran fine. It didn't change a thing. when I went for a ride it was still reading ballistically rich.

I'm presuming this isnt good.

I might change the jets but I only have a 120 and a 48. Seems a bit extreme to me but meh.....that's what they gave me.
 
have you completely lost it ferret? you haven't even posted what carb you're running or what your settings are. so let's get that sorted.

regards

Taffy
 
woops. it's the delorto and as for the settings I haven't tinkered with it yet.......til last night.

After reading the tuning guide in anouther thread I moved the clip on the main needle up 1 position and got a good improvement. The throttle responce is heaps better and there is a little more pull but she is still rich as hell so I'll move the clip up anouther position and see what that does.

if the clip positions are numbered 1 thru 4 from top to bottom mine was on 3 and is now on 2.

hey Taffy I don't think I had it to begin with :p
 
okey dokey, I chatted to the husky dealer next doorand he said my problem with the carb would be the seals on the choke needle. So he gave me 2 and I'll have a crack at it tonight. :)

Nuthin beets old people knowledge.
 
never heard that one beofre but it's so typical of us not to hear of stuff like that. i think i know the seal you're on about - it's half way up the choke jet, right?

regards

Taffy
 
yep changed it and guess what. NO bloody difference. the rubber was cactus tho. I lie ya can't smell fuel in the exhaust any more so it did a little.buggers me.

I'm getting a second AFR but in a tail sniffer form so I can see if my haltuner is functionig properly. so far I'm stumped.
 

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