heating problem 650 FE 2005

I don't know where exactly my problem started

I use the bike at almost 10,000 ft for it has been a problem jetting it, Im running a setting supposedly checked with a dinamometer at this altitude: 140 mj and 42 paj on a keihin 41. and had spark arrestor and silencer opened and repacked witch should make it require more gas.
But, it is still running hot, the pipe gets blue and everything boils up.
Im also running a recluse clutch, which i like the brake on top. The clutch has been ok but not really necessary and I read here, that the clutch basket dot rotates hard enough to disengage the plates completely. Could this be the cause of my problem??? :evil:

I am going to try it thos w-end with the following:
change the 42 to a 45 paj
add a cooling additive to the oil
Running the radiator with tow cool (propilene glycol) only
and in case that still boils up i installed a pair of computer fans inside the guards. :idea:

I hope that someone can point me in the correct direction

Try doing a search of this site as this problem has been discussed at length in previous threads.

If you still need help, please post more details of your situation. IE where are you located, why type of fuel are you using, how are you riding your bike, what ambient temps are you riding in etc....

The pipes turning blue is normal, and boiling over usually only happens during more extreme riding. However, at 10,000' msl the boiling point of water is greatly reduced.

I don't know much about the rekluse clutch, but, if it's slipping that will generate a lot of heat.

Hope this helps,

I believe you could purchase a 06 fuel tank and radiator shrouds which would allow you to use the new for 06 optional cooling fan


Part # 80035041044

There are no closed course settings for your bike like the 450 and 550. You may want to try the OBDVR needle to replace the OBDVT that comes stock in the 05 650. Try raising the needle first (lower the clip). You went from a standard 160 main to a 140 which seems like a lot wthout fattening up the needle which effects 1/4 through 3/4 throttle.

From the Keihen site:

1/4 TO 3/4 Throttle

The JET NEEDLE is the most effective component in the range. Changing the STRAIGHT DIAMETER (D) will change the calibration in the transition range from the SLOW circuit to the MAIN circuit (1/8 to 1/4) throttle. A smaller diameter will make this range richer and a larger diameter will lean this range. TAPER (A) changes are only made if there is a problem balancing the calibration between 1/4 and 3/4 throttle. If the mixture is rich at 1/4 throttle and lean at 3/4 throttle, a JET NEEDLE with a larger taper is needed. If mixture is lean at 1/4 throttle and rich at 3/4 throttle, change to smaller taper. If the calibration is lean from 1/4 to 3/4 throttle, raise the JET NEEDLE by lowering clip position, or use JET NEEDLE with shorter length (L1). If the calibration is rich, lower the JET NEEDLE with a longer (L1).

A couple of points: First, the jetting appears to be on the lean side, even for higher elevations. Second, the Rekluse clutch is borderline at handling the massive low rpm torque of the 650. A slightly slipping clutch will dramatically increase coolant temperature. How many tungsten carbide balls are you running in the Rekluse clutch? A higher number of TC balls will aid in clutch plate lockup. Also, make sure that you use a diesel dino 15/40 oil (Rotella or Delo 400) in your Berg. I am partial to the Shell Rotella as it lacks any moly additives.

eric (husabutt) is obviously getting the hang iof this jetting mullarky because that uis excellent advice. get the DVR needle. it wiil help keep the bike cooler at all low speeds because of the needle straight making the bike richer.

call sudco up for this. then do what i call the snap wheelie test. this is when you ride along at 4 mph in first gear and whack the throttle. there is a screw under the carb called the pilot scre (PS) and you adjust this .5 turn either way for best response. it'll help i'm sure.

regards

Taffy

Hi Paco,
Glad to see you made it to UHE.
I will call your buddy in the US first of the week.
Dale

Most of the bikes here in Mexico are 2005, and dont count with guarantee like in USA.
We didn that brand so we dont have experienced mechanics to go to...
Iam fed up of taking the bike with the same problem over to the KTM dealer
only to have the problem worsened. I mean they cant even jet the bike.... they dont understand
it like you guys do. and so many of us are in the same dilema, thats why Im recuring to you.

So, getting back to my post,

DALEO,
the fuel here is, I believe octane 90 (so they say) because is goverment owned. I am an
advanced hard enduro racer the climate right now is 60ish but cooler in mornings.

My poor bike has boiled over so many times that is a miracle is not all bent out of shape.

I filled the radiator with cool tow fluid straight. only to find that one of the screws
of the head was loose so all the fluid was lost... This particular screw gets loose all the time
this time in the middle of the mountain. I refilled with water and kept on driving.


CHAS:
The bike is lean it was again hard to start, with that
45 pilot. some guy in the trial said to have the same problem and ran all the needles in
the field, he also has an aftermarket silencer and said not to have any more boiling issues.

He came back to a 138 MJ, 50PAJ with stock needle with the clip on the second from top.

I belive we ended up half and half with the balls and 2 sets of clutch plates thank you....
I just dont like the way Recluse works so I will toss it all togheter. I am almost certain thats the culprit.
but I`ll be writting another post with all the cons of using this devise that no one tells you about.

As far as oil goes we are again very limited to brands but found one for harleys that seemed better
and the additive is also a good comprosmise. but I will look into the diesel Oil.

HUSABUTT:
I lived in your town a few years back overlooking the freeway on Caroline Way,
I guess you do desert racing??. and by the way, Im a Doctor not a farm worker. jeje.

This guy also said that KTM changed the needle and he went back to the original on the same
setting??.
I will raise the needle first as recomended and go to a bigger calibration jet needle.
Is that OVR the next size up or down??? from OVT how does that work?. alphabetically?



Taffy: Now I know how to better test the screw other than closing it and giving it gas.
I did close it and it did die so I know needs gas.

Guys as always Your advice is right on, thanks so much. I wont have to burn the bike after all...

If you want to take this jetting thing to the next level a custom ground needle along with jets is available from Dale Lineaweaver for your jetting tinkering pleasure. Dales is a multitaper needle and may just be what the doctor ordered. I believe it to be even richer than the OBDVR but it may be comparing apples to oranges because of the multitaper. You also might have to disable the accelerator pump or reduce its action as you will be way rich with Dales needle and the pump.


Taffy: Most of my practical jetting knowledge comes from right here. You, Dale and others are awesome. Everyone should be so lucky to have received an in person jet needle tutorial from you. Some day you need to post all your jetting notes and diagrams in the owners doc

berg-mex,
I feel your pain man. I too have an 04 FE650 with a rekluse that was plagued with overheating. After a year and half of playing with it this is what I have come up with.
1) Although the rekluse is kind of marginal for the 650, if it is set up correctly and there is no creep or drag at idle, I do not believe it is a large factor in your overheating issue. I have checked oil temperature on mine and it does not seem to be excessive. I have used Delo and Motrex 10/50. I find no difference in the performance of the oil for the additional $8.00 a quart you pay for the Motrex synthetic. I have used an additive with both oils "Two 2 Cool" http://www.two2cool.com/. The additive did lower my oil operating temp by about 15F. You get 4 or 5 oil changes out of a $20 bottle, kinda of expensive. I dont know if I will purchase another bottle when this one is gone.
2) Evans NPG-R coolant. http://www.evanscooling.com/main27.htm
With the Evans coolant you now have a boilover point of 370F at zero psi. The upside is that you will likely never boilover again and you are running little or no pressure in the cooling system. I would consider this an advantage.
The downside being that it does not actually transfer heat as well as water or standard coolant. also the fact that if the engine is extremely hot you will not have boilover to warn you.
You must use a prep fluid with Evans to remove all moisture in the cooling system. Any moisture (coolant or water) in the system will boil and cause cavitation in the cooling system. This is actually a big part of the overheating problem. Once you are running Evans you cannot add water or coolant to it although you could convert back to water or coolant without issue. Note: when ever you add coolant, always use the bleed screw on the head to remove any air. This is imparative.
3) Cooling fans. I am currently running two computer cpu cooling fans mounted to a set of BOSS radiator guards. The Boss guards are the only ones I found that would accept the fans http://husabergheadquarters.com/
I have the fans wired to a simple switch that I try to have running as long as the engine is on. So far the fans have held up quite well, I just try my best to not get them excessively wet. You can have a look at my gallery to see the fan setup and the spring setup on the rekluse. http://www.husaberg.org/modules.php?set ... _album.php
I think eventually I may try the 06 plastics and factory fan setup.
4) Jetting. I have run the gambit with no real luck. I am currently running a Lineawever jet kit and am quite happy with it. The bike starts much easier and runs much smoother at lower speeds. The pipes have stopped bluing as well. The only thing I have changed is the main jet. I opted for a 165 main over his 150. The 150 may work well for you with his kit.
http://www.d-lineaweaver.com/
5) Last but not least. I run a 14 tooth countershaft sprocket as opposed to the 16 tooth that came on the bike. It allows the engine to turn faster at lower speeds thus helping the coolant circulate better. I have found that I tend to short shift the motor and run a gear or two too high most of the time. The low engine speed is not condusive to coolant circulation. Besides, I have had no ambition to run 120mph on a dirtbike recently.

With all of this I think I have it sorted out, although I dont ride at 10,000 feet. As far as I know, just about any bike will boil over at that altitude.

Yes taffy, I know I need to place this in "the doc". I will try to work on it.

berg-mex,

If you haven't bled the cooling system you should, especially if it is overheating. See page 48 and 49 of the Owners manual.

Regards,

Joe

Hi Paco,
I spoke with John and your kit shall ship in 24 hours.
Sorry for the initial first name mix up.
Sincerely,
Dale

PS
However, in all fairness you have called me Dave a time or two. :lol: LOL

Berger:

You are right its been a real pain, most of the bikes in Mexico are the same. Therefore,
they dont hold rasale value and are not cheap when new. sales for close to 10 thou USD and
5 thou for them a year after..... well, add all repair expenses that any other model would need
for a life time and NO one wants them....

But the driving is the best frame I have ever rode, and I been riding 18 yrs, at least for
my style of riding.

I wanted to traded in for the new model, they laughed at me, and they are "friends" so I figure
if Im to loose 5K in the trade and there are no significant variants in the new model, well,
I have 5 thou to play with any ideas???

1) The clutch disengages fine I believe the problem is when you give more load to the engine thats
when it boils up. But, like I said when you measure pròs and con`s and the kind of enduro I do
well may be better of without. If you happen to stall or fall in a steep hill and try to
picK it up you better be holding on to the brake (it not that easy) or you will see the bike falling again
And If it doesnt start after, well you can run the battery down to nil, but you cant roll it down
in gear to started again. And in a race you dont want to kick start the bike 50 times believe
me you get tired. I argue its effectivenes even in muddy hills you have so much torque that
the bike goes up in 3 rd gear. The only reason to keep it so long was the brake on the
handle bar, I believe they make a brake/clutch contraction, any reviews on that??

I have tried and cooling additiveavailable here made by wynns, with surpisingly good results. Its a gel like product
that made the engine run very smooth. I will try to import some two2cool.

2) If evens is made of propeline glycol I have used something similar puerchsed at NAPA (tow cool)
thing was no one said anything about pouring it by itsef... it was mixed at 25% per liter.
I have nothing to take the water off the system maybe another heating sesion without radiator
jeje. No, I will open up the system and blow some air in??? or give me the prep fluid name please.

3)I had fashioned a pair of radiator guards. went to a sheet metal place with the design and measures
and they came out pretty good and were cheap. Did same for skid plate. The fans fit inside and
work fine. I used 2 since I can see that the center of the fan`s motor only cover 2 holes off the
guards.

4)Dale:
has been contacted and will try his solution for what read his is a proven solution.
by the way Dale my name is Paco not Pedro.....right back at you buddy. jejeje
Im tented to try so some more of his custom parts. for now, main thing is cooling it off.
will see how the bike takes the jets.


5) I believe the only thing that was missing is the radiator cap... I change it for a KTM
model since its the same and found a 140 number on it??? what motorcyle runs a cap with a
bigger pressure and what does that number means???

JoeUSA
The bike was flushed with some solution, it came out pretty dirty... and I used the tow cool
alone (did not took the water off). The liquid came of the head gasket, I dont know why one of
the screws keeps on loosening.... Now I have to check for warps and do the head gasket dance
all over again... Plan to use some king of locking agent to the treads... any suggestions.


Does any one knows if calibration to the valves will help in starting the engine when cold.??
I took it to a garage once and after calibration the bike was sweeet to start with just a flick
of the switch, didn last much... I have asked mechanics about their technic and it varies a lot,
I have read ways of soing it that are very complicated with the recluse since the clutch is always
engaging when bike is off, maybe I`ll try it again, now that the clutch is coming off.
By the way its now for sale.....jejeje

Berg-mex,
Evans sells the prep fluid, you can find it on there site. If you run the evans coolant as well, pressure will not be an issue any longer. That alone may help with your head gasket issues. Remember the Evans does not start to boil until 370F when properly installed with prep fluid and bled properly.
I have no answers for your head bolt coming loose. Perhaps it got hot one too many times.

berg mex

you do realise that the water is meant to only just cover the bars? you mustn't fill it to the brim fella.

you haven't responded to the idea of a header tank, i would get one if you want a long term permanent solution.

regards

Taffy

You guys are really great Thank you for giving me the run down .


Berger

I`m ordering the evans package. and I know how to bleed and fill. although some times when in the mountain you just pour water in only to find out it all comes back out. jejeje.

and was thinking of retreading part like I am doing others that dont hold the bolts (maybe cuz the heat) but that particular bolt goes in thight so, Im checking the head to see if it seats even, may be warpped and glueing the sucker up with some sort of loctite. Also, I will apply Gasket silicon to both sides of the head gasket to improve it.... or should I just use 2 gaskets???

I may ened up leaving the recluse on since I cant find the brake pedal, pump and the cables.... what a drag....



Taffy:

I was thinking of getting the recovery can from the new honda 250f would that be similar??? It mounts oposite side of header how much is yours
my problem is getting money out there...If posible send me your info???



best regards,

PAco

I run recovery bottle off of a Yamaha Raptor. I think its in my gallery. If you run Evans you will not need a recovery bottle, although you could use it to store spare coolant.
I would not use any adhesive on the head gasket. Find out why it leaks (warped etc.) and repairthat problem.