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handling question 550 / 650

bushmechanic

bushmechanic

Joined Jun 2007
4K Posts | 1K+
south east WA Australia
Ive read that some guys found the 550 turns easier than the 650, anyone know why?

the 06 550 engine I have apart here has about 250gm heaver crank/rod and 30 gm heavier piston/pin than my 628 engine.

the counterbalancers are the same

the 628 has a longer cam chain and stroke and the cam is about 20mm higher right?

so what gives ?

the 628 is doing less revs (mostly) and has less rotating inertial mass. so which one turns better and why?

I'm confused 8O

regards
Bushie
 
the cylinder head is 1" higher which means the headers are as well, the carb is, the rod throws the piston higher.

put it this way, you'd expect a 250 to handle better than a 500 so the same applies again i reckon?

regards

Taffy
 
right so crankshaft gyroscoptions are mostly bollocks, I thought so.

drop the 650 engine 25mm and it might handle like a 550 except for the longer stroke. :)

regards
Bushie
 
Hey There
I own both a 2004 Fe550 and a 2007 Fe650. The 550 definately feels lighter. Though the 650 has the biggest grin factor on the planet.
cheeseberger
 
i think you surprised a few people there bushy.
i've even heard that in a few motorbike mag tests,where they go on about the extra inertia of the 650 crank causing handling problems, compared to the 550/450.
at least now we know that is all b.s.
comes down to only one thing,1' higher top heaviness.
can we compare a few weights between my real 650 your imitation 650 being 630 & the 550 , just for interest sake.
my drive side crank half weighed 2175g
my flywheel side half is 2079g
crank pin is 332g
conrod is 324g
std wossner piston 282g

crank halves were weighed without bearing collars/inners & no counter weights.
all good info thanks ..weed..
 
popup said:
i think you surprised a few people there bushy.
i've even heard that in a few motorbike mag tests,where they go on about the extra inertia of the 650 crank causing handling problems, compared to the 550/450.
at least now we know that is all b.s.
comes down to only one thing,1' higher top heaviness.
can we compare a few weights between my real 650 your imitation 650 being 630 & the 550 , just for interest sake.
my drive side crank half weighed 2175g
my flywheel side half is 2079g
crank pin is 332g
conrod is 324g
std wossner piston 282g

crank halves were weighed without bearing collars/inners & no counter weights.
all good info thanks ..weed..
Click to expand...

I can vouch for weeds weights- my 03 650 crank comes in within 20grm of weeds (mine went 4.93kg complete, no mains)

Just what do the other cranks weigh bushie??

As far as the 650 doing less revs, that means we must be riding it a gear higher everywhere than the 550??
Otherwise both bikes with the same gearing are turning identical RPM for the same ground speed.

And wouldnt the 650 be more prone to break traction, easier and for longer than the 550 would until it got some "hook"- so it would be actualy turning more RPM ??

Just some thoughts. :)
 
my accurate scales only go to 3Kg so its only rough on the absolute with a spring balance fish weigher

the 628 crank and rod is about 4.5kg with welded balance wieghts (75gm) and the 550 shows 220-250gm heavier on the same spring balance

628 piston 272 gm and the 550 piston 297 but its badly worn so add 3 or 4

maybe someone else hase a proper set of scales and a 628 bell crank.

Ive never ridden a 550 so don't know really about the rpm, I use the tourque on mine with a big tyre rather than the revs, probably usually shifting around 6-7000 so my mains look good after 170 hrs but I broke my gearbox. my guess was if you had a 550 in teh same sandy terrain it would be breaking traction and revving its head off more than a 628 because you would perhaps ride it with more rpm and yes perhaps lower gearing just to have enough drive to get out of a corner. so youd be using 6000rpm and up wheras Im getting plenty of go at 4000. just a guess :) might be wrong.

mainly i think the handling is noticed in the turn in part of a corner where the RPM is very low which is why Ive always thought the crankshaft gyroscoptions was a load of BS, if you pull the clutch, hit the breaks and turn in the engine slows down to almost idle as your turning.

I do notice its harder to turn in if I add weight to either of the wheels, heavier tubes, extra rimlock or big tyre all make the bike less willing to change direction. its particulary noticealbe in the air.

with the 644 crank being heaviest ? the real test of the gyroscoptionals would then be between a 628 and a 644 with identical tyres tubes etc and see which one changes direction easier in the air.

I just put my steering head back on 50mm extended and 1 degree steeper, I wonder what that does..

regards
Bushie
 
I ride both 650 and 550 supermoto, and in sweeping turns, if you have drive, you can feel the 650 want to pick up as you crack the power. I was always told this was the extra inertia of the internals wanting to stand up (a la' the bicycle wheel effect). Either way, the bikes are pretty similarly spec'd and the 550 is definitely a better turning bike. I have to have the 650 setup so unstable to get it to turn in at speed its untrue, and yet the 550 will drop in no bother even with the bike setup 'long'. Whatever it is, the difference all adds to the fun though eh :D
 
my 550 turns better than my old DRZ 400. maybe it was the suspension ha.
Is your suspension set up identically.?
 

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