Front End 'push' - query

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awilksch

Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
746
Location
Kangaroo Island, South Australia
Hi,

I have been suffering a slight front end push on my Berg 550 pretty much since day dot, I have more recently spoken with my Berg Dealer, and inquired as to wether pushing the forks down a little further in the clamps would make a difference.

The forks are currently set on the second scribe mark below the fork cap (about 2 mm between scribes), I envisage that lengthening the forks by 2mm thru the clamps would make the wheelbase longer, and increase the amount of front axle trail.

I also anticipate that putting the forks thru the clamps more would increase the head angle, and make the front end more unstable.

can anyone varify this theory, or let me know their weight vs the fork position in the clamps to see if I can find any syneryg between weight and fork setups that work for others??

Cheers!

Azza.
 
Run them almost flush with the top of the triple clamp maybe 2mm from the top.2-4mm above the triple clamps thats the way i like it.

Reduces tucking under at times and adds more stabilliy at high speed.
 
awilksch said:
Hi,

I have been suffering a slight front end push on my Berg 550 pretty much since day dot, I have more recently spoken with my Berg Dealer, and inquired as to wether pushing the forks down a little further in the clamps would make a difference.

The forks are currently set on the second scribe mark below the fork cap (about 2 mm between scribes), I envisage that lengthening the forks by 2mm thru the clamps would make the wheelbase longer, and increase the amount of front axle trail.

I also anticipate that putting the forks thru the clamps more would increase the head angle, and make the front end more unstable.

can anyone varify this theory, or let me know their weight vs the fork position in the clamps to see if I can find any syneryg between weight and fork setups that work for others??

Cheers!

Azza.
Click to expand...

Before you do anything with the front from factory setting make sure you have the rear end set up right.

Set or check static sag at 35mm. You can go to 30mm of static sag as well.

Remember, you need to have the proper spring for your weight as well. With all your gear on and standing on the pegs rider sag should be between 3 & 1/2" and 4". Sorry, don't have the mm equivalent for you right now.

Once that is set right you will notice a big difference. If all things are set right and you still have the problem let me know and we'll go from there. There are several other tuning tricks you can use to fine tune the front end bite.

Also, you are getting your package about a fist's distance from the gas cap when turning?
 
RE: Re: Front End

agree with daleO, set the rear sag at about 90-100mm when sat in riding gear. big difference at slow speeds.

secondly, to raise the forks makes the steering head steeper. don't talk about stability here because the husey is luckily always stable! by raising the forks you will be throwing more weight onthe front entering corners and it therefore starts to dip!

judging by all the tests i've done i would say that the next best way to get 'dip' is to loosen the front comp bleed a couple of clicks.

the next one is to check your preload which is a very easy and quick task. it's you-know-where!

finally, i drilled three bleed holes in the base piston and this has really helped! that can be seen at the tail end of the 'fork tuning for enduros'. the idea is that as you start to brake the oil can zip out through these three holes w/o necessarily lowering the oil level in the fork more than a teeny bit.

hope this helps

regards

Taffy
 
I run mine like wildmans see pic


Berg_bar_raisers_2.sized.jpg
 
Thanks Guys,

Dale, I have done my rear sag some time ago, and I agree that it is crucial, I made massive gains on feel and tractability when I tuned that end.

Taff, I think we're on slightly different approaches, I meant sliding the forks down thru the clamp, not the clamp down the fork tube, I'm sure gou get the pic - I understand that steepens the head angle, but I think that will accentuate the push problem.

Faktor, cheers for the info, and relationship to Wildman's setup, mine would be 2 sribe marks down, so if the cap of the fork is 2mm proud of the top of the clamp, then mine would be 6mm.

I think I'll get onto it and change like in the photo.

come to think of it, before I did the sag (increased preaload and raised rider sag height) the steering felt better, but the arse end was all over the place, so by doing the above for the front end, should re establish the more appropriate fork rake and improve mid corner turing feel without the push or tuck sensation.

Cheers!

Azza.
 
now you see, the way i see it, the more weight on the front, the more it sticks!


anyway, well soon find out what worked when you tell us.

regards

Taffy
 
I wonder if it's a damping thing rather than a geometry thing. If what you are experiencing as "push" is the bike running wide in turns and not turning quickly and surely it could be that you have too little rebound damping or too much compresion damping. Try fiddling with these (one at a time) to see if it improves.
 
I have altered the fork tube position in the triple clamps so that the lip of the fork cap ist level with the top of the tripleclamp, took it for a run is some conditions which I know cause some trouble, and it feels a little better than before.

I havent had a decent ride for a while, so it can be tough measuring the effect.

feels better though. :thumbleft:

Azza.
 
Apart from getting the springs right, which is essentail, I like to get the rear axle right back too. This may require an extra chain link, but it helps load the front and improves its tracking.

Steve
 
Hey Azza, I took some oil out my forks ( now have 130mm air gap ) with standard weight oil. I have a heavier spring ( 46 I think ) fitted & found I really had to crank up the rebound. I run 26 - 30 clicks of rebound depending on the gear I'm wearing. This helped dramatically with the push thing. I only run about 12 clicks of compression so the forks suck in the first 30mm of travel. No mods to internals.

Good Luck. :wink:

Wal
 
Wal,

Count the clicks out from fully seated. Just seated is 0, and is full adjustment.26-30 clicks is almost all the way out and not a lot of rebound. Generally, the stiffer the spring, the more rebound is required and the less conmpression, all otehr things being equal. The lower oil level just reduces the bottoming resistance towards full travel and has no other effect.

Steve
 
Hey Steve,

always thought I was a little backward, I count the clicks from full open so my bad. I dont know if I've done something wrong but the less oil has made it bottom out easier :?: I set the new bike to exactly how we did it with Cafey at last years Force Ride. Next to no compression on the forks & lowered the oil level. I put cable ties around my shocks before & after to measure the response & had to crank up the compression clickers to 12-15 in from fully out/open. I'm certainly going to take Frank up on the experience next year at the Force Ride, I'd love to stuff around with this forever but time is precious now & better spent riding :lol:

Hope to see you at the next ride with the knee all up to speed.

Wal
 
My fork tubes came stock set just a little higher past the first scribe mark through the clamps. Maybe 1 mil higher. I run the 84/250 rear spring, and sag is set at 105. Im a little over on preload. Around 7 mil and static sag just about right 35 mil. Im very happy with the feel of the bike except that I feel it can turn a little quicker. I run stock settings ecept for one softer on fork compression. Im ready for a small experiment to fine tune it even more. I will set rear sag at 103 first to alter weight towards the front. I also may raise the forks just a mil higher to test. . If it doesn't help im not unhappy with what I had.
Pollo
 
Check to see if the front has any static sag at all.
On my fs650 there was hardly any when I got it.
It also pushed through corners.
Took all the compression spacers out and did a few mods to get 6mm preload on the springs. Was 30mm of preload.
Made a big difference.

Cheers spanner
 
Thanks, I will check the static sag on the forks. I have increased rebound on the forks with other bikes i've owned with success. Just not on the berg yet. Instead I went softer on compression because it was a little harsh stock for the little rocks. At the same time doing this accents the rebound so I left it. I might try one click harder rebound though just to see. That might just bring me where I want. That little extra push was amazingly effective on my CR500 years ago.
Pollo
 
pollo

the sag on your bike is meant to be between 85-100mm. you are outside that and too soft on the rear. half a turn on the preload adjuster will bring it right. you really must do this before you do anything else. it even makes what you HAVE done invalid IMHO.

regards

Taffy
 
ah a different view?

I think you are going in the wrong direction. It is important to try and be on the gas in the soft stuff to stop pushing and the rebound adjustments you talk about will make it seem ok, but will have other bad affects. Set the rear so it does not push the fon't too much and the more preload on the back the more preload on the font forks. Put more preload in the font and then soften the compression slighlty. Check the static sag of the forks in the show room.
 
pollo said:
My fork tubes came stock set just a little higher past the first scribe mark through the clamps. Maybe 1 mil higher. I run the 84/250 rear spring, and sag is set at 105. Im a little over on preload. Around 7 mil and static sag just about right 35 mil. Im very happy with the feel of the bike except that I feel it can turn a little quicker. I run stock settings ecept for one softer on fork compression. Im ready for a small experiment to fine tune it even more. I will set rear sag at 103 first to alter weight towards the front. I also may raise the forks just a mil higher to test. . If it doesn't help im not unhappy with what I had.
Pollo
Click to expand...

Pollo,

How much do you weigh with all your gear on?
 

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