freaky hair do

McMucker · Jan 6, 2006

so I got the valves done finally (quite easy when ya know what your doing. I had it on the wrong stroke for ages 8O ) and bike back together but after a brief ride to warm the oil up. I drained the lump and found this... (see pic)
The bike has 2800miles and has had a new piston and barrel 400 miles ago. I have only owned the bike for the last 100 miles and I reckon this is the first oil change it has seen since the new barrel and piston.
Is this amount of swarf likely and normal to come from these new bits or is it a sign of impending doom??

sandskipper · Jan 6, 2006

My guess is DOOM! :hang: DOOM I say!! :-({|=

That does not look too good. Me thinks something is not right inside...

I don't think that Nicasil is magnetic and I know the piston aluminum is not. If you just did some valve work and this is the result, logic would tell me to start somewhere up on the top end #-o . It could be coincidence that this occurred at the same time you tinkered with the valves. My best advise to you is to start ripping her down and find the smoking gun but im no expert on this. Someone with more knowledge will be along shortly to give you some more advise im sure. I would have fallen over and had a heart attack if I pulled that from my bike..... sorry man ::cry:

Regards,

70marlin · Jan 6, 2006

If you had a major failure and had it rebuilt it could just be trash that they couldn't get out of the engine. If not it doesn't look good. My 470 looked like that just before the counter balancer driver shaft bearing failed, Good luck.

risky1 · Jan 6, 2006

If i am not mistaken, I think you had said you bought this bike and the previous owner had said he and done a bunch of work. (i.e. piston and such) Is this the first oil change after you bought it? You just got it started last week right? (or am i think about someone elses thread?) If I am right, it possibly could be left over from the previous rebuild. But that amount of magnetic material is a sure sign that something is or was seriously wrong... sorry man...

DaleEO · Jan 6, 2006

I can only imagine what the oil filter looks like, be sure and pull it.

Take a thin magnet wand, or dare I say pencil magnet and stick it inside the drain hole and sweep it around to pick up as much of this material as you can.

If it is indeed true that you are just now changing the oil for the first time, and there is no bad noises coming from the motor, try putting in fresh oil and filter, run the bike until warm. Maybe just put around by the house for a few minutes. Drop the oil again, and see what you get. If it's not bad try putting a few more hours on it and drain the oil again. If it's bad again you're going to have to take it apart.

If I found this type of material on my drain plug all of a sudden, I'd take it apart then. But, in your situation I'd try flushing it out a bit as this could be left overs from rebuild, and the previous breakdown.

Keep us posted,

sentinal · Jan 6, 2006

I would think that is simply a result of the rebuild if it is the first oil change. That's what my plug looked like after I did the break-in oil change. I was surprised of course but I just assumed it was due to break-in. I changed the filter and filled 'er up with oil. Next change there was virtually nothing on the magnet and only a speck on the screen.

If it was my bike I would simply button it up go ride for an hour or so. Then lay the bike on its side, pull the plug out and look. Saves having drain the oil. If it gets fuzzy after that I'd then consider looking deeper. It's even possible to check it again after 2 hours or 3.

It wouldn't hurt to take a close look at the old filter. Use a hack saw to free the paper from the filter housing and take a very close look. Now that I think about it, this filter might be to small and metal fillings from the hack job could give a false result.

Any way just my 2 cents. Good luck

Hil

sentinal · Jan 6, 2006

Sorry, I must have had a brain fart or something. I guess I kindof resaid what Dale said. Also it occured to me that you can just cut the filter element out with a sharp knife. I was thinking spin-on filter for some reason.

Good day
Hil

McMucker · Jan 8, 2006

well I ran her on friday and saturday for about 70 miles (bloody freezing)
I dropped the oil and checked the magnet which had some swarf on it but not allot. Everything seems to run fine on the bike. well ok its majorly lean which I really need to get sorted. I riased the needle (k51) to bottom clip and with 180 and 35 pilot on 3 turns out the plug is virtually all white except for a very light bague colour on carb side of the plug as it sits tight.
I have ordered a 40 pilo jet already but am now thinking I should get a larger main or different needle. any sugestions on his would be good?
I really don like runnin the bike so hot and lean.
There is a little oil that appeared on the clutch cover and my boot on saturday. This may be coming from the kickstart im not sure which could also be related to the swarf. its ben kicked allot over the past few weeks.
This time I cleaned the drain bolt hole out with a magnet to get any more swarf out. I will run her for another 50-100 and check again.
Alo.. which oil do you guys run. Ive read some threads about dell 400 or whatever but it cant be got here in UK. I ran 5w 40 fully synth in it at the weekend although the manual says for 5w 50 fully synth. Dos it have to be fully synthetic? Can 10w 40 semi synthetic be used??

Cheers

sandskipper · Jan 8, 2006

McMucker,

I was pretty sure you had failure just around the corner as you may have gathered from my previous post. That did not look like anything I had ever seen come out of a bike. After checking your second picture it still lingers in my head that there is quit a bit of shavings there, more than I have ever seen come out of my bike in two years if you were to combine it all. I don't like seeing stuff like that and with the information I have gathered here over time, it just looks like no good to me.

However, I have never had to do any major maintenance to my bike that would yield this kind of result. I didn't have it on my initial break in of the bike, why would one have it after a rebuild I ask myself? I am learning and I will have to store this in my head for future reference. Hope everything is fine and keep us updated with any more info that comes up.

Regards,

risky1 · Jan 8, 2006

skipper is right that you really should not have this kind of stuff showing up... but personally, if the bike sounds alright and is not making any weird vibrations I would ride it a bit more and see if the material becomes less and less... just lay that bike on it side and pull that plug OFTEN to check... this would lead me to believe that the person who did the rebuild before you bought it do not clean out the cases very well... I am not sure if debris like this can hurt your motor ( i am positive that it is not helping though

) if it was from the previous implosion of the motor...

I hope it is what i think and not a bearing that let loose.

McMucker · Jan 9, 2006

it ultra fine metal like a kind of powder. it just sits in those spikey patterns because of the magnetism.
The bike has been kicked allot over the past few weeks and I may have a leak near kickstart. This could be related to swarf. I am told that it could be kickstart decomp lever, the kick start is hardened steel and the decomp lever is mild steel and the edge can take chunks out of lever.
My worst fear is its a sign of my main bearing going as this is a known issue due to excessive end float with these bikes and one reason why I was put off buying in the first place. I do intend to get this modification done though.

so what oil you ppl run?

whosahberg · Jan 9, 2006

hello mr muckmucker sir

i use silkolene, can you get that in ireland?
anyway there is lots of good oil on the market 8)

sandskipper · Jan 9, 2006

McMucker,

Good to hear about the powdery metallic stuff on your magnetic oil plug. Not good that their is stuff at all, but it appeared to me that those things were 1/4 inch (1cm) long metal shavings and flakes which would be a sign of fatigue and/or failure of bearing races. I get the powdery stuff on my plug also but in very very very small amounts, just enough to notice when wiped with a paper towel. I do hope luck is on your side and this problem is not symtomatic of something more serious and is just being flushed out. Take care over there.

ps. about the oil question, do a search on "Delo 400" in the forums. This great oil was recomended by Dale Lineaweaver and is used by a large group of the riders here including myself. Also Shell "Rotella" is a comperable oil and others use it also. These oils are formulated for diesel applications but perform well in the bikes also and at a fraction of the cost of synthetics. It can be changed out often and for such a small amount of $$$, you just can't justify going any other way. (These are 15-W40 oils of a non-synythetic base, dyno oils if you will)

Regards,

whosahberg · Jan 9, 2006

delete muckmucker add mcmucker

McMucker · Jan 15, 2006

whosahberg said:
delete muckmucker add mcmucker

eh?

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