Joined Jun 2004
380 Posts | 0+
Sandpoint ID
Hi mark550fc I run my 04 fe450 forks flush with tripple clamp there is a diffirence betwen 01/02 and 03/04/05/ My 01 fe400 I ran at the first mark
but there is other factors in selecting where to run the fork assume that
you have a handling issue
Happy new year
VIKING
but there is other factors in selecting where to run the fork assume that
you have a handling issue
Happy new year
VIKING
Joined Nov 2005
159 Posts | 0+
She shakes her head at times and it is a little scarry!
I have changed the rear spring from a 80/250 to a 76/95/250 to a 84/250 and my next move will be a 8.8/258 that I had made 8mm longer than stock and the hope is that it will place a little more weight on the front.
My sag was about 33-38 and the other number was 105-112 with the said springs. And I did not see much change from each spring so it must need to be revalved for a 205 lb rider I am thinking?
Thanks.
I have changed the rear spring from a 80/250 to a 76/95/250 to a 84/250 and my next move will be a 8.8/258 that I had made 8mm longer than stock and the hope is that it will place a little more weight on the front.
My sag was about 33-38 and the other number was 105-112 with the said springs. And I did not see much change from each spring so it must need to be revalved for a 205 lb rider I am thinking?
Thanks.
My SM has a 84-250 rear spring, clickers in the middle, forks to first line, 100 mm of sag and 20 mm unladen.... I'm 250 with gear and I've have had her up 80 mph....on rails, no shake.....I'm still learning but I did find the less sag the more weight on the front....I also tried less rebound and compression up front but didn't work as well as the rear sag adjustment....
I'm far from an expert but seems to me you have too much laden/unladen sag....makes the front end light, too much bias towards the rear.......??? just a thought..
I'm far from an expert but seems to me you have too much laden/unladen sag....makes the front end light, too much bias towards the rear.......??? just a thought..
mark550fc said:
To answer your first question I run my forks on my 04 at the first line under the fork cap.
Kind of seems like you're bouncing ( no pun intended) around with your spring choices. I see that you are going from a straight rate 8KG 250, to a rising rate 7.6KG-9.5KG 250, to a straight rate 8.8KG 258. Your free sag is in the ball park, but keep in mind that the "optimum" set up for a rear spring is between 4-6mm of preload on the spring itself. And I don't understand why, I'm assuming here, that you put an 8mm spacer on the 8.8 when you haven't tried it yet at it's standard length of 250, this is a huge change that I'm betting will result in really poor handling, as it will dramatically shift weight forward thus compounding your problems.
Since you haven't mentioned the fork springs I'm assuming you haven't chaged them, and if that's so this is the most likely cause of your problem. Your forks are probably hanging down too far in their travel, you have to match the front end with the rear. You say your bike is shaking it's head, and then you talk about putting more weight on the front, I really don't think this is the direction that you need to headed. If running all those different rear springs at varying amounts of sag made no difference in head shake then your front springs are definitely too soft. With 112mm of rear sag and the fork height set where I set mine your front end shouldn't be wagging very much at all.
If you weigh 205lbs in your birthday suit, then you are going to be close to 218 or 220 with your gear (10lbs just for your boots) on sans a fanny pack and drink system. If you referrence the owners manual you'll see that you should have .47 or .48 springs, as .46 are standard for a FC.
Standard set up for a stock 2005 FC 550 at your weight should be .47 or .48 kg front springs preloaded to 10mm with precision spacers, an 8.4/250 spring set at a static sag of 33 to 37 mm should produce a race or rider sag of 90 to 100mm. This is all taken from the 2005 owners manual pages 30 & 31.
I would reccomend that you take your susupension to a top notch suspension tuner who is familiar with the PDS system and have it sprung and valved for your weight, ability, and type of riding you do. IMHO you do not need to buy any special valves or other gizmo's for your shock or forks, you just need someone who know's what the heck they're doing and your stock components will be just fine, if someone insists that you need their valves blah blah blah, do some more research. Talk with these guys on the phone for a while, your spending big bucks to get your suspenders right, if they don't want to take the time of day with you, move onto the next one. Also, have your ******** filter set on extra high when talking to these people. I spent about $650.00 getting my suspension set up for me and it was worth every penny, if you'd like I can set you up with the guy who did mine, he is no bs, and that means you have to be no bs, he knows bs when he hears it. He has been in the business for 30 years and has truly helped all that have come his way.
Hope this helps,
Joined Nov 2001
17K Posts | 774+
Ely, England
mark
it's not a case of sussies blah blah. line on forks blah blah.
you need to frop the forks through the yokes and get them flush with the top to give yourself a chance.
thing to remember is that within a year these bikes are letting in water to the SAPP area and the headraces must be greased and adjusted. your service intervals are now entering your area-don't bypass them.
go and check the two items i mentioned. the other to check is rear wheel alignment. i do this with no tyre on the rear and the wheel alone back in. bit of string against the rear rims along to the front wheel. you'd be amazed at how many rear wheels got adjusted the wrong way one day!
jesus! half the owners can't even adjust a chain correctly!
anyway, you'll get there!
regards
Taffy
it's not a case of sussies blah blah. line on forks blah blah.
you need to frop the forks through the yokes and get them flush with the top to give yourself a chance.
thing to remember is that within a year these bikes are letting in water to the SAPP area and the headraces must be greased and adjusted. your service intervals are now entering your area-don't bypass them.
go and check the two items i mentioned. the other to check is rear wheel alignment. i do this with no tyre on the rear and the wheel alone back in. bit of string against the rear rims along to the front wheel. you'd be amazed at how many rear wheels got adjusted the wrong way one day!
jesus! half the owners can't even adjust a chain correctly!
anyway, you'll get there!
regards
Taffy
mark550fc said:
spacers are not going to compensate for a too soft a spring, .46's are for someone weighing 176 pounds. KG=2.2lbs.
Joined Nov 2005
159 Posts | 0+
Part of the problem is the WP springs vary on consistantcy as I placed a 8.8 on the thing early on and it was as soft as my stock 80/250. To confirm it I placed the spring on my 05 300mxc that uses a 8.8 and the new 8.8 dropped 5mm on static and 8mm on race sag--so it was not a 8.8 it was a 80/250 that must have been ink stamped wrong? This has been conformed by Dicks racing that the WP springs are all over the place contributing to this little set back. I will drop the forks to flush and try the 8.8/258 that Cannon Race craft produced for me and repost when it stops raining in Reno. I will also send it out to **** to be revalved for 200 lbs and try the new spring at the same time.
Thanks
Thanks
hi Taffy
I suppose I should have posed a question first to mark, as to what kind of riding he does. I was however, assuming that he is riding mx. I use .44 springs, but, my set up is for off road, and therefore set up a bit softer than if I was riding mx. I weigh 175# in my birthday suit and about 200 easy with my gear on. So, based on what mark was saying, and how much he says he weighs, is why I was saying that he needed the stiffer springs.
There is however the possibility that his front suspension is hydraulically too stiff which will also make the bike shake it's head. So, he could just try backing off on the compression adjusters on the front to help alleviate the head shaking problem.
Mark, at this point I would also ask, did you have the shock valved at the same time as you had the front valved for a 200 pound rider? I would also ask the following:
What is your skill level?
What year is your bike?
What kind of riding do you do?
What is the breakdown of your riding area's? IE 50% track 50% off road.
Who did you have do the valving work on your bike?
Did they change the valves in the shock too?
Did they change the needle in the shock?
On my bike (04 fe550) I have the following .44kg springs with a revalve of the stock components in the forks. 18 out on the compression, 15 out on the rebound.
I have a PDS 8 shock spring set at 5mm of preload which works out to exactly 35mm of static sag, and about 3 & 7/8" if sag with me on the bike with a 1/2 tank of fuel with a revalve of the stock components. I can't remember what the low speed comp is and it's pouring rain out so I'm not going to go out the garage and look right now, but, i do know that the high speed comp is at 2 &1/4 turns out.
Overall the suspension is set up for a Desert Expert. I also have a steering damper but that's more for the no see um's. My bike will wiggle the bars a bit at speed, but that's more b/c of the terrain I'm riding in. If I'm riding in tight stuff I back the steering damper ( a Scott's of course) off to 1 & 1/2 turns out. If I come out of a canyon and see that I'm heading out across the valley I set it at one turn out.
Keep in mind also that your High speed compression adjuster has an influence on ride height, so you might try backing that off a 1/2 turn and see what effect that has.
But, just remember, make one adjustment at a time.
So, concerning your shock spring, set the spring pre load at 5mm, then see what your static sag is. Is it between 32 & 37mm's? Then see what the sag is with you on the bike. Is it around 4"? Then you are within range. Just remember that if you are using a PDS rising rate spring that the valving must be coordinated with the rising rate spring, and the same would be true of a straight rate spring.
The lenght of your shock spring is reallly not going to make a difference as far as sag goes. There are PDS springs in the 260 length but they were created to fix the problem of the shock body threads not being long enough to accomodate the longer shock length that was made a few years back.
Also, keep in mind that you have to be careful how much you pre load your fork springs, if you preload them too much you will start to compress the top out spring. There was another thread just recently where I talked about this.
Anyway, good luck with your set up. If you answer those questions I posed then I will have a better idea of what's going on with your set up.
I suppose I should have posed a question first to mark, as to what kind of riding he does. I was however, assuming that he is riding mx. I use .44 springs, but, my set up is for off road, and therefore set up a bit softer than if I was riding mx. I weigh 175# in my birthday suit and about 200 easy with my gear on. So, based on what mark was saying, and how much he says he weighs, is why I was saying that he needed the stiffer springs.
There is however the possibility that his front suspension is hydraulically too stiff which will also make the bike shake it's head. So, he could just try backing off on the compression adjusters on the front to help alleviate the head shaking problem.
Mark, at this point I would also ask, did you have the shock valved at the same time as you had the front valved for a 200 pound rider? I would also ask the following:
What is your skill level?
What year is your bike?
What kind of riding do you do?
What is the breakdown of your riding area's? IE 50% track 50% off road.
Who did you have do the valving work on your bike?
Did they change the valves in the shock too?
Did they change the needle in the shock?
On my bike (04 fe550) I have the following .44kg springs with a revalve of the stock components in the forks. 18 out on the compression, 15 out on the rebound.
I have a PDS 8 shock spring set at 5mm of preload which works out to exactly 35mm of static sag, and about 3 & 7/8" if sag with me on the bike with a 1/2 tank of fuel with a revalve of the stock components. I can't remember what the low speed comp is and it's pouring rain out so I'm not going to go out the garage and look right now, but, i do know that the high speed comp is at 2 &1/4 turns out.
Overall the suspension is set up for a Desert Expert. I also have a steering damper but that's more for the no see um's. My bike will wiggle the bars a bit at speed, but that's more b/c of the terrain I'm riding in. If I'm riding in tight stuff I back the steering damper ( a Scott's of course) off to 1 & 1/2 turns out. If I come out of a canyon and see that I'm heading out across the valley I set it at one turn out.
Keep in mind also that your High speed compression adjuster has an influence on ride height, so you might try backing that off a 1/2 turn and see what effect that has.
But, just remember, make one adjustment at a time.
So, concerning your shock spring, set the spring pre load at 5mm, then see what your static sag is. Is it between 32 & 37mm's? Then see what the sag is with you on the bike. Is it around 4"? Then you are within range. Just remember that if you are using a PDS rising rate spring that the valving must be coordinated with the rising rate spring, and the same would be true of a straight rate spring.
The lenght of your shock spring is reallly not going to make a difference as far as sag goes. There are PDS springs in the 260 length but they were created to fix the problem of the shock body threads not being long enough to accomodate the longer shock length that was made a few years back.
Also, keep in mind that you have to be careful how much you pre load your fork springs, if you preload them too much you will start to compress the top out spring. There was another thread just recently where I talked about this.
Anyway, good luck with your set up. If you answer those questions I posed then I will have a better idea of what's going on with your set up.
mark550fc said:
did you have Dicks do the revalve for you on your forks?
And a good suspension shop will have a spring dynomometer to verify springs before installation.
Joined Nov 2005
159 Posts | 0+
I did not have the rear revalved to 200 lbs and think this is part of the problem. I just checked the triple clamps and think I found a them to be a little loose. I ride 40 expert in GP type WORCS races and my intended use is for that kind of racing and the tracks do have some moto to them.
I think the forks could use some .47s and that would help as well.
The Moto Pro valves do work pretty good but are very good on my 05 300 mxc and was hoping that it would come out as well. The valves did work out better than just a standard revalve on my 300 no question about that.
Thanks
I think the forks could use some .47s and that would help as well.
The Moto Pro valves do work pretty good but are very good on my 05 300 mxc and was hoping that it would come out as well. The valves did work out better than just a standard revalve on my 300 no question about that.
Thanks
mark550fc said:
Sounds like you've got it nailed down to a combination of a few different problems, and I'm sure once you've got those sorted you'll be a happy guy. I think the .47's are going to help considering your skill level and the type of racing you're doing. I've always wanted to check out the WORCS series, the lake Havasu round looks like a lot of fun.
Good luck getting your Berg dialed in, once it's there I'm sure you'll be loving it!!!
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