Flash boil in tank

I finally got around to insulating the tank and wrapping the mid-pipe. Here's a photo of the tank. I used DEI Reflect-A-Cool, and the 12 inch by 12 inch size was more than enough.

Nice job Ruger! :bounce:

Thanks very much, Electrified. It even started and ran after I put it back together!

I hope it makes a difference, because it was a pain in the behind to do and it took over half a day. Just getting the tank out of the frame is a bit of a challenge if you have a radiator fan, and I had to remove the rear shock to free the mid-pipe. I really, really hope it makes a difference in fuel temperature.

Hey Electrified, 3 weeks? Ha ha! Not sure where your from but over here in OZ a dealer had my bike for 5 months until I cracked it and went and picked it up in bits! Now Im still putting it back together, lucky that Husaberg Australia decided to give me the replacement parts as a "show of good faith"! I hope you have more luck than me! Do you know what caused your cam to go? Im interested because everybody else on here talks up how reliable their bikes are. Im fairly sure that a faulty big end bearing caused the damage to my engine and I suspect Husaberg knows this and thats why they have warranteed my new piston and bore without asking any questions! Of course, now Im waiting for my rod kit to show up, at my expense! not bad for a bike with less than 2000 klms on it! Everything else about the bike is great, ive just been let down by a dealer i think!

sorry guys for taking the thread off topic! Im fairly new to this forum thing. I havent encountered any of these fuel issues but i am definitely going to implement the heat shielding when my bike goes back together!

akshun, Saturday will make 5 weeks and counting. I do not know what caused the cam to go out but intend to grill my dealer before I make the 2 hour trip to pick the bike up. A LITTLE frustrated these days.

Ruger said:

Thanks very much, Electrified. It even started and ran after I put it back together!

I hope it makes a difference, because it was a pain in the behind to do and it took over half a day. Just getting the tank out of the frame is a bit of a challenge if you have a radiator fan, and I had to remove the rear shock to free the mid-pipe. I really, really hope it makes a difference in fuel temperature.

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Can you use infrared thermometer or just the plain old butt dyno to tell any differences? I'm kinda in the middle to do it or not, with DEI reflect-a-gold tape.

Your tank is black with double insulation so no fuel fumes weeping through. Mine is the clear one that "breaths" through it. I put some 3M 1080 carbon tape on the tank lower part, and it held only for few days. Started to bubble pretty violently so I just pulled it all off.

Would be really bad experience to put the heat reflective tape and see it fall off. Maybe with some P220 sand paper and 3M adhesive spray I could get it to stick, but I'd like to know first if the tape even helps anything.

I don't have an IR thermometer, but I do have something better than my butt. (That would stand to reason, but I digress.) Instead of the factory black rubber tubing on the fuel cap I have clear fuel line. It gives you a visual that's really illuminating. I didn't know I had a hot fuel problem until I put on the clear fuel line. So I should be able to visually determine whether this modification improved things. It's going to rain here on Sunday, so I hope to get the beast out either this afternoon or tomorrow.

BTW I also used DEI's silicone paint and "titanium" exhaust wrap on the mid-pipe, so any benefits I see cannot be isolated to be the result of either modification but will be the result of both.

Well I have the FMF ti pipe, and ti is transferring heat better than stainless. More likely I'm already running a bit cooler than with stock exhaust, but the pipe is still at dangerously close level to the tank and airbox. Taping both airbox and tank could "maybe" help on hot days and slow riding.

Are you running the stock ignition map or the "performance" map? If the former, you're probably running lean with that aftermarket muffler. That'll cause additional heat in the system. My dealer noted that I had an aftermarked muffler (FMF 4.1, same as yours), and actually SUGGESTED that I have the performance map installed.

The aggressive ignition map. Also DNA air filter and a nice big hole in the seat + cutted shrouds, full FMF titanium system /w Akra ti end can (No 4.1).

My plug is white as a snow. :lol:

I had before the performance/unrestricted map installed in the ECU, now I have the UST map flashed in the ECU, because I own my own User Setting Tool and I can map the ECU now how I want. I richened the bike a bit from idle area and 15% throttle to WOT, and I gained hella more snap and torque. Need to take it to the dyno and get it mapped properly there.

Don't have aftermarket wideband installed so I have no clue what the A/F ratio is. Plug is still white without any hint of brown so I would say damn lean. :mrgreen:

FWIW,

If you are going to wrap the header, like with DEI's titanium that's great. Or, if you are going to use the CV4 blanket that's great too.

Just don't use them both together! There will not be any air gap left between the mid pipe and the CV4 blanket! You need to have this air gap to allow some air flow. The wraps and blankets will help insulate against radiant heat, however, eventually they will get heat soaked and the heat will start to flow through, the insulation that you add just slows it down.

The only two you could use together would be the DEI reflect a gold, or that other DEI material that one poster showed-and I'll second the comment, great job of installation!

If you are moving along the insulation works great b/c you have air flow across the bike.

The one mod I have not seen here that would make a big difference is to drill holes in the front fender to allow more air to pass through the fender and onto the radiators and engine. You see this mod a lot on off road racers' bikes, and the MX bikes. If you make the holes big enough for good air flow, you just need to consider putting some sort of mesh over it to keep mud and the big stuff from going straight through. In fact, if I am not mistaken, I have seen kits that are the lower part of the fender, and you just trim your stock fender and pop rivet on the lower part that has the louvers in it.

Another thing you can do is to put holes in the lower part of the number plate to allow more air flow through that area, and back onto the tank and reg/rectifier.

The gas cap...........IMHO you need to remove the ball check valves period. Yes the little one in the cap seems like it would just stop the fuel flowing out in a tip over. However, what happens is that as the gas begins to boil, and the pressure starts flowing out, you can hear this little ball valve rattling around in the cap, one good bump on the trail will seat it against the cap and now the pressure starts building. That's why in the 70* tank instructions it says to remove this ball check valve. Its there for EPA reasons. Further, run you cap vent all the way down to the skid plate. This keeps the spooge from drooling down your frame down tube in the front and all over everything else on its way down.

The only time I would use the frame mounted vent termination is if I rode A LOT OF DEEP WATER for extended periods of time.

If I am not mistaken, I did not see that you are running a radiator fan, this helps a lot to remove the heat from the motor, its not just the exhaust that's making all the heat. Using the clutch a lot makes a lot of heat, and it you are running a Rekluse and running in too high of a gear, the clutch is going to be slipping a lot, and will build heat quickly. Since there is not an oil cooler, the main cooling system is going to have to remove that heat, so make sure your radiators are clean.

Don't lug the bike excessively in the tight sections. If you keep the revs too low, the coolant doesn't flow as quickly, and therefore, it can't make as many passes through the motor and the radiators in a given period of time. Further, when running in a lower gear, the bike doesn't have to make as much power, so its not going to create as much heat. And, as you have made the Air Box mods, the more revs you make at lower speeds is going to pull a lot more cooler air through the motor through the opened up box, this also lowers engine temps and egt's due to the fact the intake air is cooler in the first place.

While I'm thinking of it, since you have the User Setting Tool, did you know that the ECU has 900 minutes of recording time in it? You just have to set a trigger to tell it when to start recording. It records most all of the engine parameters that the ECU see's. And depending your situation you can see the IAT (intake air temp), ECT (engine coolant temp), TPS (throttle position sensor) and put this all on a graph.

Don't worry about how white your plug is, that is normal on a four stroke bike. The only way to really tell is with a wide band A/F meter. If you want a good plug indication, look at how many threads of heat discoloration you have on the plug. You are looking for 3 threads of heat as they say.

Dale, the other DEI product is called Reflect-A-Cool. I used it instead of Reflect-A-Gold because ad copy for the latter says that it's easy to remove, and I don't want it peeling off.

Where does it say in the manual to remove the check ball in the factory gas cap? I haven't read that.

Ruger said:

Dale, the other DEI product is called Reflect-A-Cool. I used it instead of Reflect-A-Gold because ad copy for the latter says that it's easy to remove, and I don't want it peeling off.

Where does it say in the manual to remove the check ball in the factory gas cap? I haven't read that.

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I didn't know that about the reflect a gold, thanks!

It doesn't say that in the manual. It says that in the 70* tank instructions. What we found was that if you left this ball in place pressure would rise in the main tank pushing fuel into the freely vented sub frame tank, and then the gas would start flowing out the vent hose and before you know it your main tank is running low on fuel.

Another alternative would be to notch this little ball with a dremel tool, hack saw blade or something so that the pressure can be released from the main tank whether or not one has the sub frame tank or not.

I quit running one way valves on my bikes sometime ago. This was really a problem on the carb'd bikes and this pressure would over come the ability of the float valve to keep the right amount of gas in the bowl, and as the pressure rose it would cause flooding of the bike, and or a constant drain of fuel out the overflow hose of the bowl.

One could even surmise that given the FI regulator keeps fuel pressure between 44-52 psi, a 10 psi build up of pressure could cause problems in the form of the injector not being able to hold back an excess of fuel pressure, as there would be no where for the fuel regulator to dump the excess fuel pressure.

The only time I use one way valves on the gas caps now, is when I am transporting bikes in my toyhauler to keep gas vapors from escaping.

DaleEO said:

The only time I use one way valves on the gas caps now, is when I am transporting bikes in my toyhauler to keep gas vapors from escaping.

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Hmmm....

Could this be the reason why stickers and tape would not hold on the fuel tank? I put some nice 3m 1080 carbon wrap on both sides of the lower tank part. Even used some adhesion promoter on it to stick better, and it sticked on it like weld!

After 2 days I saw big bubbles everywhere and just decided to rip the tape off. Smelled raw gasoline on the back of the tape. No wonder it would not stay in place. Now If I buy that reflect-a-gold tape will I encounter the same thing? I have removed all check valves from gas cap to stubby vent line, and now it can vent both ways freely.

Maybe sanding down the tank and spraying some 3m polyolefin adhesion promoter where the tape would go, would help it to stick and stay in place...?

I am happy to report that the installation of DEI Reflect-A-Cool on the underside of the tank and wrapping the mid-pipe with DEI "Titanium" worked like a champ. I took the 570 out today for a test run and spent almost an hour in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears and there wasn't even a hint of fuel in the fuel cap vent tube.

The update isn't so stellar. It was hot again today, and after an hour of mostly 2nd gear work the 570 quit while under power. The fuel was obviously hot because it was outgassing through the fuel cap hose rather vigorously. I parked it in the shade and waited for it to cool off, but after a half hour of cool-down it wouldn't refire. Eventually the FI light went on, I think as a result of insufficient battery power. The fan didn't turn on, so I'm going to try that NAPA therm switch replacement. A dirt bike that will strand you is not worth owning, so I have every intention of getting to the bottom of this.

After the battery was charged and the engine was at ambient temperature, it fired right up. Does anybody know how to activate the FI Blink Codes feature? The manual has a whole page on it, but doesn't say how to activate it.

I bought the replacement radiator fan thermo control switch from NAPA and installed it. (You can do it without losing but an ounce of coolent if you're quick.) The factory switch is marked 100/95, which must mean that it turns on the fan at 100C and turns it off at 95C. The NAPA part is marked 95/90.

I took the same ride today that I did when it stranded me, but it was at least 10 degrees cooler today and I don't think that the fan came on at all. So I don't know if I've solved the problem yet.

erniebearskin said:

After two hours of hard riding in mountains we stopped on top of hill for a breather. I was frustrated as my idle started creeping up and up while stopped and wanted to see if I could adjust. Upon stopping I noticed my vent was whistling so I was curious if I was building excessive pressure in my tank, so I turned my fuel cap, and it popped off with all the pressure, upon decompression the fuel instantly starting boiling so rapidly it started bubbling out of the tank. After uncleanching my butt cheeks I quickly slammed the cap back on.

Scary stuff. 2011 FE390 with billet cap and the stubby vent from Hardparts catalouge.

Im assuming vent was not functioning correctly and the pressure in tank not only was causing the bike to overfuel and idle to increase, but pressure was also raising the boiling point of the fuel.

Anyone else experience this?

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Mr Bearskin
It happens to our bikes all the time. I buy silver tin tape from a plumbing and heating shop and tape the bottom of the fuel tank. I had a similar stubby vent, with a billet aluminum tip and had the same problems with building pressure. I don't think those tips vent enough volume, so go back to the std vent. Then just ride it...boiling fuel is just a matter of life in our slow trails. As long as it vents, you'll be fine.

fry

Not so, Fry. Mine apparently vapor locked and wouldn't restart even after a 30 minute wait, and I've got both reflective material on the tank and a wrapped the midpipe. This is a reliability problem.