FE400 '03 to 470 questions

ElSnorro · Nov 3, 2008

I am planning to rebuild my FE400 '03 engine (100 hours) this winter and to convert it to 470cc by boring out the barrel to 100mm and fit a 470 piston.

I have a few questions about this, especially after reading this Thread

1: Should I use this headgasket (from the doc):
21 200 321-01 Cylinderhead gasket 470/550/650 (thick) -01
2: Can I use a wossner piston for FX470? Or should I use the OEM (elko?) piston?
3: If I cant get a thicker Headgasket, can I use 2 lower cilinder gaskets? (not preferred by me, but if it works?)
4: Should I use the double KTM valve springs? Or is it possible to keep OEM springs?
5: Can I use a LX1 camshaft in this engine?
6: Which distibution chain should I buy? I am reading that DID is good, but OEM is good also? Which should I choose?
7: Taffy: I read you have 29mm exhaust valves fitted and ported your exhaust ports.
Can my stock valve seats take the 29mm valve's? What else is needed to make the 29mm valves fit to my SV head?

Thanks for the answers, looking forward to rebuild my engine and giving it the 470 kit

Taffy · Nov 3, 2008

as i read this i was getting more and more angry :x because i answered all this stuff IN THE THREAD that you talk of! it least you were good enough to ask me by name. i get so many questions aimed at me and they don't have the balls to say my name....

you can't really run a small valve head on the 100mm piston. the squish area is too wide. it's so wide that the gases can't escape. the compression will be phuqing stupid! try 17-19 to 1. that's diesel country!

the thing to remember and i repeat myself from that thread (yawn!) is that the flat woessner is 3mm lower than the 'other' two options:
1) elko ashtray. same as the woessner but with a rim around the piston 3mm high = smashes into your head.
2) FC470 piston. 3mm taller in the middle, would whack the head but i would turn the piston down in the lathe.

your only chance is the 450 rod that's guess what? 3mm shorter!!!!!!
117mm C2C instead of 120mm C2C. then use the elko piston.

yes the 29mm valves do fit the original seats, they also flow better simply by being further out into the head and aiding compression. i didn't go to 30mm because lineaweaver said that you can't. to tell the truth, after i'd done it i was 100% certain that you can but that's another day....

i have same nearly new 30mm here that i can get machined up for you down to 29s if you want to PM me.

forget the thick headgasket, that's like a plaster on a bullet wound.
springs are irrelevant to your question = seperate issue.
there are no lower gaskets on huseys.
LX1 would make the bike like a phucking animal, a beast. you need the dual springs with them.
thomas of enginehardwear recommends IWIS and this is good enough for me and all i stock now. it's german and full of teutonic goodness!!!!!

my advice? don't.

regards

Taffy

jmumme · Nov 3, 2008

re-size

I have been riding my sons 02 400, because my 04 550 needs a rebuild, and I think the 400 the ultimate engine size. I would be very happy with an 03 400. The 550 is awesome too but I spend more time observing how fast I get into trouble than just flat ripping it up.
my $.02.
John

loz16h · Nov 3, 2008

I gotta say I agree with jmumme and Taffy (nicely said, I could understand every sentence) :lol:

I love my 400 for the type of riding I do. I have 150 hrs and no problems (except a broken kickstart shaft) so if it aint broke don't fix it. Ride it.

ElSnorro · Nov 4, 2008

I like my FE400, but its a supermotard, so I need more power..
Especially on the circuit.

Taffy: If I use the Flat wossner piston (which is 3mm lower), use the thicker headgasket and turning my cilinder head out a bit so compression is lowered? And using 29mm valve's (i already have large (doma) exhaust headers)
Would that be possible? Its cheaper than buying 450 con rod I think?
Will send you a PM about chain+valves+springs

Taffy · Nov 4, 2008

wow! hang on!

look, the flat pistons are all the same = low. that goes for all the wossners etc at 92, 95 and 100mm. but the 470 domed, and the elko ashtray are 3mm higher!

if you machined 3mm off the elko rim you would have a wossner. if you machined the dome off the 470 you would also have a wossner.

you actually do have to take quite a bit out of the cylinder face to make them flow but it would still not get rid of the basic problem. you have n 18mm wide squish when 8mm should be the maximum.

cheaper to get a cylinder head and rocker cover complete (or maybe just the arms).

regards

Taffy

ElSnorro · Nov 4, 2008

Taffy said:
wow! hang on!

look, the flat pistons are all the same = low. that goes for all the wossners etc at 92, 95 and 100mm. but the 470 domed, and the elko ashtray are 3mm higher!

if you machined 3mm off the elko rim you would have a wossner. if you machined the dome off the 470 you would also have a wossner.

you actually do have to take quite a bit out of the cylinder face to make them flow but it would still not get rid of the basic problem. you have n 18mm wide squish when 8mm should be the maximum.

cheaper to get a cylinder head and rocker cover complete (or maybe just the arms).

regards

Taffy

Ok, thats clear.
So it is possible to turn the squish back to 8mm?

PM send

Taffy · Nov 4, 2008

not really......

as you know, your cylinder head is flat on the squish, the area that is too wide is behind the inlet and exhaust valves. especially the exhausts. the area you would machine would be right up to the seats and would be roughly the shape of the 'D' area around the football penalty area.

you then have to remember that i'm not in there seeing all this happen! to leave one tight space it must get away so how much do you machine out? 2mm deep? chamfer the edges? how close to the valve seats?

the other way to do it is to grab the standard 100mm flat wossner and machine a 'trench' around it. like a moat around a castle? this is what they did to the ducatis. 8mm squish, a moat, no dome BUT back to flat in the middle! now that you can do! i don't know what the compression would be and i don't know how it would run!

and don't forget..... your exhaust ports need serious amounts removed. there is 12 hours work there with a rotary file. guides need removing and then replacing and the valve seats need re-cutting. and all along you could get a BV head!

regards

Taffy

ElSnorro · Nov 4, 2008

Taffy said:
not really......

as you know, your cylinder head is flat on the squish, the area that is too wide is behind the inlet and exhaust valves. especially the exhausts. the area you would machine would be right up to the seats and would be roughly the shape of the 'D' area around the football penalty area.

you then have to remember that i'm not in there seeing all this happen! to leave one tight space it must get away so how much do you machine out? 2mm deep? chamfer the edges? how close to the valve seats?

the other way to do it is to grab the standard 100mm flat wossner and machine a 'trench' around it. like a moat around a castle? this is what they did to the ducatis. 8mm squish, a moat, no dome BUT back to flat in the middle! now that you can do! i don't know what the compression would be and i don't know how it would run!

and don't forget..... your exhaust ports need serious amounts removed. there is 12 hours work there with a rotary file. guides need removing and then replacing and the valve seats need re-cutting. and all along you could get a BV head!

regards

Taffy

Ok Taffy, will search for a BV head and waiting for your experiences.
Does my SV rocker cover fits a BV head?

Taffy · Nov 4, 2008

yes but not the rockers them selves. they are set wider apart because the valves are set wider apart! do that and you have an FE470 like a production bike. the only real difference is that you run a 38mm carb.

regards

Taffy

ElSnorro · Nov 4, 2008

Taffy said:
yes but not the rockers them selves. they are set wider apart because the valves are set wider apart! do that and you have an FE470 like a production bike. the only real difference is that you run a 38mm carb.

regards

Taffy

Ok

Well i have fitted an 39mm FCR mk2 already

You got mail btw

jmumme · Nov 4, 2008

All this talk of squish, penalty areas, moats and trenches
You guys sure do talk funny.

LOL

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