FE 570 soft map?

DaleEO said:

And I do feel reticent about contradicting............ but, if there has been a substantial change in ambient conditions, E.G. altitude, air temp etc, since the last time the bike was ridden, one should start the bike and let it run for at least 5 mins for the ECM to place the itself correctly within the overall ignition/fueling map.

Now, the M.A.P. or manifold absolute pressure sensor acts a bit like a barometric pressure sensor, and that combined with the input from air temperature sensor, and the coolant temperature sensor, help the ECM to determine where shall we say the amount of fuel being delivered will fall in the given overall map profile.


Keep in mind that while you are riding, the ECM is constantly monitoring the air temperature, MAP, engine coolant, etc... and will always be adjusting the map while you are riding. That's why it always feels the same when you are riding. Unlike a carbed bike, where the throttle may feel nice and crisp when the bike is just up to operating temp, but starts to feel spongy when the bike gets hot-and gets richer and richer as the bike gets hotter.

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There's 2 points in your post that appear to be at odds with each other.
It can take 5 minutes for the ECU/ECM to 'decide' ,from the data being recieved from the sensors, the amount of fuel being delivered in a given profile, after say an altitude or temp change yet, while riding, the ECU/ECM is constantly monitoring the data and adjusting the fueling instantly. If the system is capable of instantaneous fuelling calculation while riding (as you'd expect from EFI) then why the requirement for an 'initialisation' period? And why 5 minutes? 5 MINUTES!! Jeez..that's an age. If it's true it just seems a backward step to me.

Never come across anything like this with the numerous EFI equipped cars and bikes I've owned over the years. You just jump on/in, start the engine and go no matter where you are or what the weather's doing.

I dont think he is talking about overall power output.

And I do feel reticent about contradicting............ but, if there has been a substantial change in ambient conditions, E.G. altitude, air temp etc, since the last time the bike was ridden, one should start the bike and let it run for at least 5 mins for the ECM to place the itself correctly within the overall ignition/fueling map.

I was told when i picked my bike up. If i did something wrong like use the throttle at the same time as the starter button, I would need to leave it tick over for 5 min, So it could re'calibrate itself, few people have been told about this 5 minuets thing, just put it down to the quirks of owning a Husaberg :lol:

A quick comment on efi for those that have never heard of efi resets.....
My cb1300 (HdirtywordA) has a reset function (disco batt.. idle till fan comes on... good to go) to recalibrate for changes of pipe/filter etc.
So the idle for 5 aint so odd.

Let's clear something up here. It does not take the ECU five minutes to make the adjustments. It only "looks" at the "corrective factors" every five minutes. So, you need to let it idle for five minutes to make sure it has "looked" at these corrections. This ECU should not be compared to a car. I'm sure it doesn't have the memory/power of a car. How many car ECU's are this small? Crap, mine are 8 times this size. I will see if the idle does effect the A/F ratio at wide open. Last dyno I ran 13.0. I will start with my mods and let it idle before running it. I'm going to idle it with the seat off to try and trick the ECU into adding more fuel. With the seat off previously it ran 13.4 but I did not idle between runs. I did get 4 hp even with it that lean . I will probably have to break down and buy the User tool. I haven't yet cause my map is great. Haven't even bothered to add a bung to the header to run my wide-band. Never once flamed out and I didn't even know I could pull the idle screw out. Bike has been ridin from snowing on me to 100 degrees. 4,000' elevation to 12k. Again, the idle thing is common on the Keihin ECU's on 990's and I have watched the A/F ratio change during this. My wide-band is always mounted on my 990 unless I have a serious dirt ride going and then it's cause I don't want to trash it in a crash.

bergbro said:

A quick comment on efi for those that have never heard of efi resets.....
My cb1300 (HdirtywordA) has a reset function (disco batt.. idle till fan comes on... good to go) to recalibrate for changes of pipe/filter etc.
So the idle for 5 aint so odd.

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Yeah but is the Honda CB1300 running in "Open Loop" EFI mode or "Closed Loop" EFI mode with an O2 Sensor and/or Knock Sensor?

Does the Honda CB1300 ECU learn while you are riding it or when it is idling? Big difference in my opinion. Can't see what the Husaberg ECU can learn at Idle.

I agree that some "Closed Loop" EFI ECU's make map changes while being driven through different engine RPMs/Loads and a reset back to default maps can be done by disconnecting the battery for a period of time. They don't make changes to maps from information they learn when idling because they are dumb number crunching computers not mind readers that can predict how much fuel an engine needs at a certain RPM/Load before it even gets to that point. :roll:

A few things, based on experience, not science.

I always touch the button to prime and leave the throttle alone on initial starts, especially when doing dead engine start races.
From new, you need to turn up the idle a few turns to avoid flame outs say 1800-2000 (remember to turn anticlockwise to increase). After a few hundred miles the bike is def running better and more fuel efficient, infact you will find you can lower the idle a turn or two if you prefer .
Once you have adjusted do the 5 min idle, theres no reason not too.
The 570 favours the rekluse for the average clubman rider coupled with the mapping switch.
The mapping switch has three settings, soft, standard and aggressive, they all work instantly providing you kill the engine first. The best , most responsive and most fuel efficient mode for the 570 is aggressive mode, you will still get all the traction you require, even in the most treacherous conditions. Strange but true.
Do not smother or suffocate your air filter in oil, this causes problems, i use spray.

Cheers, Nick

nick790 said:

I agree I don't think its that sophisticated to learn on the run. But I can believe it can take some base readings on start up that it may use to set the fueling parameters. Also, something I forgot. When I picked up the bike, the dealer told me to something that may or may not make a difference. He said before starting for the first time to quickly touch the start button, so's not to fire the bike up, just to prime the fuel pump. In the mean time, I must admit I have forgotten to do this. But is it possible that in the priming period the ECU may take some readings like air temp/pressure that it will then use to set fueling parameters to then run the bike on? Just a thought.

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Looks like everyone has their own ideas on this. Personally I don't believe that the ECU does anything different during this priming period to what it does during normal running.
If you just press the start button and hold it the engine will still fire after a few turns. All pressing and releasing the start button does is fire up the fuel pump and prime the system so pressurised fuel is available at the injector ready for instant starting. I must admit 99% of the time to just pressing the button and holding until it starts and it runs exactly the same as if I do it the other way. If the bike had an ignition switch ( like my R1 or any other road bike) you'd just turn the key, hear the pump cycle and hit the start button. If I turn on the ignition on the R1 and immediately hit the start button before the pump has cycled it will behave in exactly the same way as the Husa in that it will turn over a few times before firing rather than firing instantly after waiting for the pump to cycle fully. Either way, once fired, it runs exactly the same. JMO

DaleEO said:

Now, the M.A.P. or manifold absolute pressure sensor acts a bit like a barometric pressure sensor, and that combined with the input from air temperature sensor, and the coolant temperature sensor, help the ECM to determine where shall we say the amount of fuel being delivered will fall in the given overall map profile.

The throttle position sensor is what makes everything happen quickly, as the MAP sensor input would be much to slow in it's signal for "riding" shall we say.

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Dale, this statement implies that an engine that uses the M.A.P. Sensor readings for Fuel and Spark maps would be slow to respond while riding. Which is just plain 100% incorrect. There are many race engines using M.A.P. sensor for the main fuel and spark maps. They may use the addition of the Throttle Position Sensor to add extra fuel when the throttle cracks open suddenly but the main Fuel and Spark maps use the M.A.P Sensor. Who is giving you your EFI information because it aint that good?

DaleEO said:

Keep in mind that while you are riding, the ECM is constantly monitoring the air temperature, MAP, engine coolant, etc... and will always be adjusting the map while you are riding.

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This has been my point all along. The EFI can monitor all these things while you are riding. Why would it need to sit at idle for 5 minutes to adjust "something"? Then adjust itself again while you are riding?

I have both a KTM 690 and a FE570 and both of them needs this calibration time now and again.

Since the bike runs on a open loop how should it know how to behave unless it has a good clean "base line" to start from. The only feedback the EFI system get is the idle. What the EFI does is that it uses the available values on fuel, ignition etc and sees what kind of idle rpm this gives. If not correct (due to riding altitude etc) it adjusts itself. This is a process that takes several minutes.
If you read some KTM forums you'll find that they talk about the mysterious 15 minutes calibration time...

True story from my road racing adventures with the 690: we raced last year at the arctic circle race way (Mo i rana) and one of my toughest rivals said his bike was'nt running properly. I asked him if he had done the calibration and he looked like a :?: and didn't beleive me. At last he did the calibration and not only did his bike run propely at idle but he also felt a real improvement out on the track. A got a couple of free beers that night over the camp fire